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View Full Version : The pirate ship has run aground!



LongSufferingBucsFan
12-11-2011, 06:31 PM
As lifelong Bucs fans we have once again become disillusioned with our team. *sigh* We are not fairweather fans and have stuck with them through thick and thin, and we dared to think that we might actually have a winning season this time. Alas, another year of hopes dashed. The team is sloppy and undisciplined. Stupid mistakes this late in the season are not acceptable.

Can we get Gruden back before the ship completely sinks?

Sander
12-11-2011, 06:34 PM
Gruden was fired for a reason. Those reasons haven't changed: he can't build talent, he can't coach young players.

That's not to defend Raheem Morris. Clearly, something has to change at this point. Just not back to Gruden.

Curtis
12-11-2011, 06:39 PM
As an Eagles fan, I know how you are feeling. I've been drinking the kool-aid for many years. Headaches, convulsions and it burns when I pee. I'll be standing in line next year for a refill.

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-11-2011, 09:58 PM
Thanks Curtis! I feel your pain too. We always have hope for the next season. Our mantra has become "maybe next year."

Respectfully Sander, even though Gruden had his faults, the Bucs did win a Super Bowl under his leadership. I can't see the Bucs even making a divisional playoff anytime in the near future. Something is wrong with the coaching & team when the players are still making so many mistakes this many months into the season. The analysts of the NFL seem reluctant to talk about how the coaches in TB are doing. Why is that? I don't want platitudes from the coach about how the team believes in themselves, or how the coach chest bumps his players when they come off the field (that's all we heard that 1st year - gag!) I want to know what they're doing specifically to fix their problems. The whole team seems to be in one big mess (except for Ronde - he's awesome as ever.)

Sander
12-11-2011, 10:16 PM
The Bucs won a Super Bowl under Gruden because they had an established team filled with veterans, and he could coach those guys to the next level. When Gruden left he left behind a talentless team filled with holes and old players. He left behind a team that needed to be rebuilt. He did that because he couldn't coach young players.

I like Gruden as a gameday coach. I like him as an offensive coach. But he is entirely the wrong coach for a young team that is still rebuilding.

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-11-2011, 10:57 PM
When Gruden left he left behind a talentless team filled with holes and old players.
When he left? More like when he got fired. We'll never forgive the TB owners for treating him that way. TB got Gruden for a price, and that was in dollars & draft picks. After Gruden led our guys to a Super Bowl win, we lost some players to injury and then Sapp & Lynch because the Bucs couldn't afford them anymore. If I remember correctly, the time was nearing when Gruden would be able to start getting the draft picks he wanted since the stipulations for getting him were met.

In my opinion, the Buc's owners went cheap and didn't want to spend money to get the players they needed. About that time they fired Gruden. Maybe the owners thought that Gruden would go straight to another team and they'd save money, but guess what? He didn't and he collected millions off of his voided contract. I think the owners were stupid in how they handled that situation. Going from a proven Super Bowl winner to a rookie head coach made no sense to me. (Correct me if I'm wrong on what I've posted, but that's they way I remember it.) I'm extremely disapointed in what I see happening in TB with our team. In my opinion the owners aren't doing a very good job managing the organization.

mikesteelnation1
12-12-2011, 12:53 AM
Gruden has a long track record of not being able to develop young passers. That's fact. Do you want him taking over a very promising young qb who's had his ego bruised a bit this year? I sure wouldn't.. however it does look like a sure fire coaching search is about to happen? Who's it going to be? I'd like zimmer to get a shot. Great coach..

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-12-2011, 07:11 AM
I really wasn't serious about bringing Gruden back. I know that he had issues with the QB position. My main gripe is that the owners let him go the way they did and then replaced him with a rookie head coach. The team seems to be getting worse rather than better. They started out looking pretty good this season. Something is wrong if a team is continually taking 2 steps forward and then 10 steps back.

I sure wouldn't.. however it does look like a sure fire coaching search is about to happen?
I don't know if the owners are considering that or not. Nobody (media) is talking about it. It's like the elephant in the room that nobody will address. I don't want to see anybody lose their job, but something has to change in TB.

I'm disappointed in the owners and management with the Bucs. I think they have made poor decisions the past few years.

Curtis
12-12-2011, 03:35 PM
I believe Raheem Morris will be fired, after the season ends. His record is 17-27. Morris and the Bucs are joined at the hip with Haley and the CHEFS. Suck 09, 10-6 in 2010, back to suck. I doubt they promote from within again. They need veteran coaching, like a Fisher or Billick.

Gruden is living it up being a tool. He needs to stay there.

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-12-2011, 03:50 PM
Gruden is living it up being a tool. He needs to stay there.
What has he done that makes him a tool? More power to him that he could go into broadcasting which also allows him more time to spend with his kids. I've seen the footage of him helping his oldest son's football team. Looked like he was having a great time. I love the Bucs, but not how they handled his dismissal. I love it that he didn't take another head coaching job and forced the Buc's organization to finish paying his contract. I wish Gruden much success in his life. He didn't deserve the shoddy treatment by the Bucs.

Sander
12-12-2011, 04:52 PM
Shoddy treatment? He was fired and got to enjoy $15 million more after being fired. Nothing shoddy about that.

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-12-2011, 08:30 PM
I think it's shoddy to be fired that way. Dude deserved better than that, IMO. Again, I think the Buc's owners were assuming that he'd take another head coaching job right away and they'd be off the hook for his contract. Management decision fail! Now they've screwed themselves out of millions of dollars that could've helped the team. I don't blame Gruden for that at all. It was his right not to pursue another head coaching position. It's not his problem that the Buc's owners handled his dismissal poorly.

I appear to be in the minority of those who actually like Gruden, but that's okay. I know he wasn't perfect, but I still admire his work ethic and what he did for the Bucs. For those who are too young to have been fans of the team from the beginning, it's probably difficult to understand the change in attitude that Gruden brought to the team and to the fans. We were finally getting rid of some of those tired old cliches such as "the Bucs can't win in cold weather." Check that off the list! Did that in Philadelphia. "Can't run a kick-off return back for a TD." Check that off the list too! Did that! "Can't win a Super Bowl." Oh yes they can, and did!

Some of those examples might not seem like much to some people, but to some of us diehard fans, those were huge milestones to get past. Yeah, there were bad times, but when I think of Gruden I think of all the good things he brought to TB. I respect your right to hate him, but I'll still defend him.

brauneyz
12-12-2011, 08:36 PM
Hey BucsFan I'm a fan of Gruden too. I'm a Pats fan living on the Left Coast, but I remember how good he was with the Raiders and I've always appreciated him for that. I do think he has some issues with developing young players, which is why, perhaps, he had such success with Rich Gannon, who'd been around the block already. Maybe his strength is working with talented vets, and turning teams around?

I'd rather see Gruden coaching again than in the booth with these other Stooges. Maybe ....

Sander
12-12-2011, 10:10 PM
I think it's shoddy to be fired that way.
What way? They fired him. That's all there was to it. There's no good way to fire someone, but it was time for him to leave. He got a nice $15M paycheck and whatever else he took away from his ESPN job. He has nothing to complain about.

I'm not blaming Gurden, he did a lot of good things for the Bucs. I just don't get how the Bucs treated him poorly.

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-12-2011, 10:38 PM
You're right. There's no easy way to be fired, but I believe that Gruden was blindsided by the move and that is even more humiliating. That's what bothers me the most. A lot of these coaches who are on the hot seat at least have some idea that they're in trouble. Gruden had just been signed to a 3 year contract extension after winning the NFC South in 2007. I think that everybody (and Gruden himself) assumed his job was not in danger. Obviously I don't know what he did or didn't know prior to the dismissal, but it seemed apparent by his reaction to it that he didn't expect it.

Here's what one of the Glazers said after firing Gruden: ""In our mind, there's a plan of where we want to go," he said. "We've thought it through very carefully. It will become apparent as we move along."

How is that working out for ya Mr. Glazer? Another year down the crapper. Thanks.

wxwax
12-13-2011, 12:24 AM
ps how is Fat Albert playing? I haven't seen much of the Bucs the last two games.

Sander
12-13-2011, 08:08 AM
ps how is Fat Albert playing? I haven't seen much of the Bucs the last two games.
Nothing special. Not bad, either.

wxwax
12-13-2011, 03:29 PM
Nothing special. Not bad, either.

Thanks. I think his contract calls for $6 million next season, and I can't see the Glazers paying that. I guess he'll be moving on, if anyone wants him.

Sander
12-13-2011, 05:24 PM
Thanks. I think his contract calls for $6 million next season, and I can't see the Glazers paying that. I guess he'll be moving on, if anyone wants him.
I can't see the Bucs bringing him back unless he restructures his contract, but if money isn't a problem and all they need to care about is cap space then there's no real reason to cut him, either. But the Bucs have their two starting DTs (Gerald McCoy and Brian Price). Haynesworth is the best DT after those two, but he's not significantly better than a couple of other backups.

LongSufferingBucsFan
12-17-2011, 10:36 PM
Dear Bucs Organization:

Would you please refund the money I spent on NFL Sunday Ticket so that I didn't miss a Buc's game? That's some money I wish I had back right now.

Seriously though, the team looks horrible. We heard one announcer say that even in practice the guys look really undisciplined. One of the analysts said awhile ago how the Bucs had gone back to practicing the fundamentals for the game with the Cowboys. We're this late into the season and you're having to go back over the fundamentals? This is ridiculous.