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Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 01:12 AM
For my own benefit, I decided to pull together the results of our mock draft from Sunday night. Figured that there would possibly be others interested in having this info right in front of them, so I've copied it for everyone. Let's have some fun discussing this over the next week leading into the draft.

Round 1
Pick Overall Team
1 1 Indianapolis Colts Cris Collinsworth- Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2 2 Washington Redskins (from St. Louis) wxwax- Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
3 3 Minnesota Vikings darvon- Matt Kalil, OT, USC
4 4 Cleveland Browns mkocs6- Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
5 5 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Trumpetbdw- Morris Clayborne, CB, LSU
6 6 St. Louis Rams (from Washington) tubbs1518- Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
7 7 Jacksonville Jaguars Trumpetbdw- Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
8 8 Miami Dolphins KabaModernFan- Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
9 9 Carolina Panthers vancemeek- Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State
10 10 Buffalo Bills Darren83- Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
11 11 Kansas City Chiefs BuckeyeRidley- Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
12 12 Seattle Seahawks Trumpetbdw- Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
13 13 Arizona Cardinals tubbs1518- David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
14 14 Dallas Cowboys mkocs6- Mark Barron, S, Alabama
15 15 Philadelphia Eagles KabaModernFan- Michael Brockers, DT, LSU
16 16 New York Jets wxwax- Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
17 17 Cincinnati Bengals (from Oakland) vancemeek- Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
18 18 San Diego Chargers Andy Freeland- Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia
19 19 Chicago Bears GROUP VOTE- Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
20 20 Tennessee Titans Bengals1181- Chandler Jones, DE, Syracus
21 21 Cincinnati Bengals vancemeek- Dont’a Hightower, LB, Alabama
22 22 Cleveland Browns (from Atlanta) mkocs6- Courtney Upshaw, LB, Alabama
23 23 Detroit Lions GoBigOrGoHome- Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin
24 24 Pittsburgh Steelers mikesteelnation1- Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
25 25 Denver Broncos Trumpetbdw- Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
26 26 Houston Texans BuckeyeRidley- Nick Perry, DE, USC
27 27 New England Patriots (from New Orleans) KabaModernFan- Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois
28 28 Green Bay Packers Stoll- Devon Still, DT, Penn State
29 29 Baltimore Ravens DaBearsFan- Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
30 30 San Francisco 49ers Stoll- Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford
31 31 New England Patriots KabaModernFan- Chase Minnefield, DB, Virginia
32 32 New York Giants GROUP VOTE- Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford

Round 2
Pick Overall Team
1 33 St. Louis Rams vancemeek- Kendall Reyes, DT, UConn
2 34 Indianapolis Colts Cris Collinsworth- Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech
3 35 Minnesota Vikings darvon- Trumaine Johnson, DB, Montana
4 36 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Trumpetbdw- Lavonte David, OLB, Nebraska
5 37 Cleveland Browns mkocs6- Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
6 38 Jacksonville Jaguars Trumpetbdw- Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina
7 39 St. Louis Rams (from Washington) tubbs1518- Kevin Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin
8 40 Carolina Panthers vancemeek- Andre Branch, DE, Clemson
9 41 Buffalo Bills Darren83- Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall
10 42 Miami Dolphins KabaModernFan- Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
11 43 Seattle Seahawks Trumpetbdw- Shea Mcclellin, OLB/DE, Boise State
12 44 Kansas City Chiefs BuckeyeRidley- Alfonzo Dennard, DB, Nebraska
13 45 Dallas Cowboys mkocs6- Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State
14 46 Philadelphia Eagles KabaModernFan- Bobby Wagner, OLB, Utah State
15 47 New York Jets wxwax- Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina
16 48 New England Patriots (from Oakland) KabaModernFan- Rueben Randle, WR, LSU
17 49 San Diego Chargers Andy Freeland- Ronnell Lewis, OLB, Oklahoma
18 50 Chicago Bears GROUP VOTE- Dwayne Allen, TE, Clemson
19 51 Philadelphia Eagles (from Arizona) KabaModernFan- Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
20 52 Tennessee Titans DaBearsFan- Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech
21 53 Cincinnati Bengals vancemeek- David Wilson, RB, Virginia Tech
22 54 Detroit Lions KabaModernFan- Zebrie Sanders, OT, Florida State
23 55 Atlanta Falcons wxwax- Amini Silatolu, OG, Midwestern State
24 56 Pittsburgh Steelers mikesteelnation1- Brandon Brooks, OG, Miami (Ohio)
25 57 Denver Broncos Trumpetbdw- Doug Martin, RB, Boise State
26 58 Houston Texans BuckeyeRidley- Mike Martin, DT, Michigan
27 59 Green Bay Packers Stoll- Brandon Weeden, QB, Oklahoma State
28 60 Baltimore Ravens DaBearsFan- Bobby Massie, OT, Ole Miss
29 61 San Francisco 49ers Stoll- Bruce Irvin, LB, West Virginia
30 62 New England Patriots KabaModernFan- George Iloka, S, Boise State
31 63 New York Giants GROUP VOTE- Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Florida)


By Division/Team

AFC East
Miami Dolphins KabaModernFan- Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa (1, 8); Mohamed Sanu, WR, Rutgers (2, 42)
Buffalo Bills Darren83- Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame (1, 10); Vinny Curry, DE, Marshall (2, 41)
New York Jets wxwax- Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame (1, 16); Zach Brown, OLB, North Carolina (2, 47)
New England Patriots KabaModernFan- Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois (1, 27); Chase Minnefield, DB, Virginia (1, 31); Rueben Randle, WR, LSU (2, 48); George Iloka, S, Boise State (2, 62)

AFC North
Cleveland Browns mkocs6- Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama (1, 4); Courtney Upshaw, LB, Alabama (1, 22); Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State (2, 37)
Cincinnati Bengals vancemeek- Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina (1, 17); Dont’a Hightower, LB, Alabama (1, 21); David Wilson, RB, Virginia Tech (2, 53)
Pittsburgh Steelers mikesteelnation1- Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis (1, 24); Brandon Brooks, OG, Miami (Ohio) (2, 56)
Baltimore Ravens DaBearsFan- Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor (1, 29); Bobby Massie, OT, Ole Miss (2, 60)

AFC South
Indianapolis Colts Collinsworth- Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford (1, 1); Stephen Hill (2, 34)
Jacksonville Jaguars Trumpetbdw- Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina (1, 7); Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina (2, 38)
Tennessee Titans Bengals1181- Chandler Jones, DE, Syracuse (1, 20); Jayron Hosley, CB, Virginia Tech (2, 52)
Houston Texans BuckeyeRidley- Nick Perry, DE, USC (1, 26); Mike Martin, DT, Michigan (2, 58)


AFC West
Kansas City Chiefs BuckeyeRidley- Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina (1, 11); Alfonzo Dennard, DB, Nebraska (2, 44)
San Diego Chargers Andy Freeland- Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia (1, 18); Ronnell Lewis, OLB, Oklahoma (2, 49)
Denver Broncos Trumpetbdw- Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama (1, 25); Doug Martin, RB, Boise State (2, 57)
Oakland Raiders No Selections


NFC East
Washington Redskins wxwax- Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor (1, 2)
Dallas Cowboys mkocs6- Mark Barron, S, Alabama (1, 14); Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State (2, 45)
Philadelphia Eagles KabaModernFan- Michael Brockers, DT, LSU (1, 15); Bobby Wagner, OLB, Utah State (2, 46); Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M (2, 51)
New York Giants GROUP VOTE- Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford (1, 32); Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Florida) (2, 63)

NFC North
Minnesota Vikings darvon- Matt Kalil, OT, USC (1, 3); Trumaine Johnson, DB, Montana (2, 35)
Chicago Bears GROUP VOTE- Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama (1, 19); Dwayne Allen, TE, Clemson (2, 50)
Detroit Lions GoBigOrGoHome/KabaModernFan- Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin (1, 23); Zebrie Sanders, OT, Florida State (2, 54)
Green Bay Packers Stoll- Devon Still, DT, Penn State (1, 28); Brandon Weeden, QB, Oklahoma State (2, 59)

NFC South
Tampa Bay Buccaneers Trumpetbdw- Morris Clayborne, CB, LSU (1, 5); Lavonte David, OLB, Nebraska (2, 36)
Carolina Panthers vancemeek- Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State (1, 9); Andre Branch, DE, Clemson (2, 40)
Atlanta Falcons wxwax- Amini Silatolu, OG, Midwestern State (2, 55)
New Orleans Saints No Selections


NFC West
St. Louis Rams tubbs1518- Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State (1, 6); Kendall Reyes, DT, Uconn (2, 33); Kevin Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin (2, 39)
Seattle Seahawks Trumpetbdw- Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College (1, 12); Shea Mcclellin, OLB/DE, Boise State (2, 43)
Arizona Cardinals tubbs1518- David DeCastro, OG, Stanford (1, 13)
San Francisco 49ers Stoll- Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford (1, 30); Bruce Irvin, LB, West Virginia (2, 61)

GoBigOrGoHome
04-19-2012, 01:58 AM
Nice work, Trumpet.

Shame on me for not doing this.

mikesteelnation1
04-19-2012, 02:05 AM
Bad commish gobig!! Bad commish!! {Now immediately suspend Harrison for something for my comment}

{Then suspend Nike for the illegal intentional hit to the head to all the steelers fans for that damn throwback} :D

Nice work trumpet!!

GoBigOrGoHome
04-19-2012, 02:17 AM
I gotta take that for flaking out on you all Sunday.

mikesteelnation1
04-19-2012, 02:23 AM
Even with connection problems the lions had a better first two rounds than anything millen managed. Sorry, couldn't help myself :)

Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 10:54 AM
Nice work, Trumpet.

Shame on me for not doing this.

Hey, it wasn't a problem. Always happy to help. You deserve no shame for nothin'.

Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 11:31 AM
Two quick thoughts from a contrarian...

-I think the Ryan Tannehill hate has gone way too far to the other end of the spectrum. I get that most don't think he should be a top 10 pick, but I thought falling out of the first round was way too much. First of all, with Mike Sherman in Miami, it's the potential perfect position. If they can pick up some picks and fall back, fine, but I think falling back too far may cause them to lose out, so if they're sold, I have no problem with them taking him at 8. Sure he has some flaws, like the sidearm release, but there are examples of QBs like Rivers and Kosar who have had big success with an unconventional release point. And Tannehill has a much better arm than both of them. Plus, don't overlook that Tannehill has experience as a receiver. It's always a benefit to have an understanding of what the other end of a pass is doing, so I like QBs with WR experience, and vice versa. I'd imagine it will help him as he's studying game tape, and will also give him a much clearer understanding early on as to how a WR is likely to react when a play completely breaks down.

Tannehill may have been the #5 QB off the board if Barkley and Jones came out this year, but I'm more sold on him than Landry Jones for one, and that doesn't mean he isn't a good QB prospect in his own right. I can absolutely see him going #8, but if not, don't be surprised if he goes by pick 11. Speaking of pick 11...


-One team that intrigues me is Kansas City. They've had a lot of high draft picks in recent years, and I think that their division title in 2010 was relatively legit. Last year, they had season-ending injuries to arguably their two best players, but rebounded from a rough start to have a pretty respectable end to their season. I think their roster has less holes than you'd expect from a team drafting #11. Considering the return of Charles, Berry, and Moeaki from injury, a decent line, and top end talent in nearly every unit on the field, I think the Chiefs have the ability to swing for the fences. The safe play would be to jump all over Riley Reiff if he falls to 11, and move Albert inside. But I don't think he does. And I don't see them taking a guy like Coples, or a CB in round 2 (sorry Buckeye). I think KC goes one of two ways in round 1. I think they have their sights set on a possible home run with Poe (fully understanding his perceived downside). Or, if Tannehill falls, I can absolutely see them jumping on him. Cassell is not leading that team to anything more than mediocrity. Their roster is young and talented, and Tannehill would be a very interesting calculated risk, in my opinion. Then, they could jump on a G of their choice in round 2 (Silatolu, Allen, Osemele, and perhaps even Zeitler all should be available), and grab a kid like Ta'amu, Brandon Thompson, or Mike Martin if they slip to round 3. The Chiefs are one team I can see swinging for the fences in this draft.


I'll add more later...

packa7x
04-19-2012, 11:58 AM
I think the Ryan Tannehill hate has gone way too far to the other end of the spectrum. I get that most don't think he should be a top 10 pick, but I thought falling out of the first round was way too much

^^This. People struggle with mock drafts because it's difficult to evaluate what teams will do. If you asked most people if they thought 4 QBs would be taken in the first 1/2 of the draft, they'd call you crazy. It was Newton vs Gabbert. Minny and Tennessee felt QB was more valuable and took QBs wayyyyy too high. Dropping Tannehill out of the first Rd is silly. If he falls into Miami's lap, he's being taken.

Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 04:23 PM
-The main thing I learned from this draft is the potential value that will be available in the 2nd round. Unless you're getting a likely superstar, it's just not worth wasting an early pick on an RB or WR. Richardson is getting superstar hype, and Cleveland certainly needs the buzz, but what is the likelihood that Justin Blackmon or Malcolm Floyd hit superstardom? For example, would it be better for St. Louis to swing for the fences with Blackmon, and follow that up by taking advantage of the depth in this draft on the trench positions in round 2, or would it be better for them to take advantage of the WR depth, and take the best available player on either the OL or DL? I thought vancetubbsmeek1518 nailed the Rams biggest needs, but using the information we now have following this exercise, which scenario for the Rams would you prefer?

a.) Blackmon, Reyes, Zeitler
b.) Cox (DT is biggest need) or Ingram/Coples, Wright (if he falls)/Hill/Jeffery, and Zeitler/Adams
c.) Reiff, Wright/Hill/Jeffery/Randle, Reyes

Before our mock, I'd have said that Blackmon is a no brainer. However, considering the depth at WR and DT, and with elite LT so tough to come by, I think I'd lean option c.



-WR has become the most interesting position in this draft, in my opinion. There seems to be such depth. But the one guy who I think is being severely undervalued is Alshon Jeffery. He has very good size, was very productive, has game-breaking capability, and by all accounts is a very good worker. I think he's being discounted in part because of his drop off in production this past year. However, was there a more volatile situation than the Stephen Garcia-Steve Spurrier situation in South Carolina? He still put up pretty good numbers despite no consistency whatsoever at the QB position. I know that Spurrier's WR typically flop in the NFL, but Jeffery is bigger and more athletic than Spurrier's old Florida crew. Jeffery may have the most superstar upside of anyone outside of the 1st round.


-One more WR thought... Big Ten WR will dominate rounds 3 and 4. Keshaun Martin, AJ Jenkins, Marvin McNutt, and Nick Toon all were not drafted here, yet all could be successful, and potential impact WRs in the NFL. Of those, I especially like the first 3.


-If I'm Dallas, this mock seems like a dream scenario. Barron and Worthy would be a coup if Dallas is able to pair the two of them.


-I'm not going to kill the Harrison Smith selection. It's a need for the Jets, and while he's not worthy of the 16th overall pick, the difference between him and the next guy is probably large enough to justify that selection. However, clearly if they are able to move off of that pick into the mid 20s, they should. But I will not agree that Smith should have been available to them in either rounds 2 or 3.


-Cincy has a real chance in this draft to completely close the gap between themselves and the usual conglomerate at the top of the AFC North. While Baltimore and Pittsburgh have been losing guys, Cincy has made some nice additions. I liked the Gilmore pick, but didn't get the Hightower pick. In Kendall Wright, the absolute ideal compliment to AJ Green was sitting there, and I think that had to be the selection. Then, although Wilson was not a bad selection, I'd have probably taken any of the Gs still available over him, and waited one more round before grabbing an RB. Gilmore, Wright, and Silatolu or Brooks would be a frightening result to Steeler and Raven fans.

-It's clear this draft will give Cleveland a lot of help. I hope (for their sake) that the Browns follow mkocs6's blueprint. An elite RB, OLB, and a solid OT would be a perfect start to give Colt McCoy one more chance to prove he can be an NFL QB. If I'm Cleveland, in round 3, I'd follow this up with one of my previously mentioned Big Ten WRs.


-I'm not sure I agree with all the picks, but that just looks like a NE draft. I can absolutely see them taking either Mercilus or Mcclellin. Randle falling to them in round 2 is a steal. And out of curiosity, was NE going to be the team to take Janoris Jenkins if Denver didn't?


-Trying to be positive, but the more I think about it, the more I can see (a glimpse at least) Coby Fleener being a decent fit in SF. IF they're not enamored with the WRs available, then I can see them possibly considering the unconventional approach used successfully in NE to try and get the most out of Alex Smith's ability. An OG may make more sense, and I could see this as a possible landing spot for Harrison Smith if he falls to the end of round 1, but Fleener isn't quite as crazy as I initially thought. Oh, it's crazy, but I can (barely) see the logic.


-On a personal note, what a good time it was to draft on Sunday night. Taking on 4 teams was near insanity, but when Mike {stole} Pittsburgh out from under me, I thought it would be fun to go with 2 teams that are kind of off-the-radar (Denver and TB were added later, and every bit as fun). Of those, I think Jacksonville and Tampa ended up best. For a need/value match, there may be no better pairing in the draft than if Clayborne ends up in Tampa. In adding Lavonte David, Tampa will have done a ton toward shoring up their pass defense. As for Jacksonville, Ingram seems to be much safer than Coples with nearly the same upside. And in Alshon Jeffery, they get a desperately-needed playmaker at WR for whomever ends up taking over for Blaine Gabbert next year.

KabaModernFan
04-19-2012, 04:33 PM
-I'm not sure I agree with all the picks, but that just looks like a NE draft. I can absolutely see them taking either Mercilus or Mcclellin. Randle falling to them in round 2 is a steal. And out of curiosity, was NE going to be the team to take Janoris Jenkins if Denver didn't?

If Jenkins was still available at #31, then I can confirm that yes, I definitely would've grabbed him there.

Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 04:55 PM
If Jenkins was still available at #31, then I can confirm that yes, I definitely would've grabbed him there.

Interesting. That would be my guess as to where he actually ends up. But the way things played out here, I think Denver should grab him if a similar scenario arises.

tubbs1518
04-19-2012, 05:04 PM
I personally seem to have a much higher opinion of Blackmon than you. I see him as TO without the problems. He is fast, big, strong, great hands, good route runner, isn't afraid to go over the middle. I'd rather have Blackmon and Floyd over Cox or Reiff. I don't see Reiff as a LT anyways.

KabaModernFan
04-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Interesting. That would be my guess as to where he actually ends up. But the way things played out here, I think Denver should grab him if a similar scenario arises.

A few weeks ago I would've agreed, but now that the Broncos have signed Tracy Porter I don't think the need is as great to take that risk.

packa7x
04-19-2012, 05:18 PM
I personally seem to have a much higher opinion of Blackmon than you. I see him as TO without the problems. He is fast, big, strong, great hands, good route runner, isn't afraid to go over the middle. I'd rather have Blackmon and Floyd over Cox or Reiff. I don't see Reiff as a LT anyways.

Everything vie read/heard has Blackmon as an above average prospect, not elite. He's not exceptionally tall (6'1") or fast (4.55). He's closer to Dwayne Bowe in measurables (6'2") and speed (4.51) than TO (6'3", 4.36). What I'm hearing is that his ceiling is Dwayne Bowe which surely isn't bad, but when given the choice between Blackmon and Cox, I think it comes down to need. You're not getting a top 5 player at his position.

Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 07:57 PM
I personally seem to have a much higher opinion of Blackmon than you. I see him as TO without the problems. He is fast, big, strong, great hands, good route runner, isn't afraid to go over the middle. I'd rather have Blackmon and Floyd over Cox or Reiff. I don't see Reiff as a LT anyways.

I don't necessarily disagree. He's the "right" pick for St. Louis in that he's the pick everyone expects should be made. I do think he's justified as a top 10 pick. But I get the feeling he's a bit overrated because last year's top WR has turned out to be so good.

My only argument was that he's not a slam dunk prospect. So in looking at what happened in our draft, and using that to predict what may happen next week, in my opinion, I think the Rams may be able to get better value across the board if they pass on Blackmon and go with the 3rd option that I listed. However, if you (they) believe that Blackmon is a slam dunk perennial pro bowler, then by all means they should take him at #6.

Even if he is a consistent Dwayne Bowe, as Packa has compared him to, without the random attitude issues, then I have no problem with him going that high. But without elite size or speed, you'd better be certain that he has the other skills necessary to be a top flight receiver to justify the #6 pick overall.

Trumpetbdw
04-19-2012, 08:00 PM
A few weeks ago I would've agreed, but now that the Broncos have signed Tracy Porter I don't think the need is as great to take that risk.

I actually look at it the other way. Porter isn't quite good enough to dissuade me from selecting a CB, as I see him as more of a nickel guy. But with him on the roster, I think it gives Denver the necessary depth to go ahead and take a chance on a talent like Jenkins.

tubbs1518
04-20-2012, 02:34 AM
You know he ran in the low 4.4's at his pro day right?

Andy Freeland
04-20-2012, 02:57 AM
Two quick thoughts from a contrarian...

-I think the Ryan Tannehill hate has gone way too far to the other end of the spectrum. I get that most don't think he should be a top 10 pick, but I thought falling out of the first round was way too much.

I agree ... with a but. My guess is that Tannehill will go in the 20's, but (<- see, there's my but) none of the teams in the 20's are looking for a QB. I think someone will trade back into the first round to take him and we didn't do trades. My 2nd but is that even without trades we should have taken him within the first 10 picks of the 2nd.

mikesteelnation1
04-20-2012, 03:42 AM
I don't necessarily disagree. He's the "right" pick for St. Louis in that he's the pick everyone expects should be made. I do think he's justified as a top 10 pick. But I get the feeling he's a bit overrated because last year's top WR has turned out to be so good.

My only argument was that he's not a slam dunk prospect. So in looking at what happened in our draft, and using that to predict what may happen next week, in my opinion, I think the Rams may be able to get better value across the board if they pass on Blackmon and go with the 3rd option that I listed. However, if you (they) believe that Blackmon is a slam dunk perennial pro bowler, then by all means they should take him at #6.

Even if he is a consistent Dwayne Bowe, as Packa has compared him to, without the random attitude issues, then I have no problem with him going that high. But without elite size or speed, you'd better be certain that he has the other skills necessary to be a top flight receiver to justify the #6 pick overall.

Not only is he not a slam dunk prospect, history shows us top 10 wr picks are mostly busts. Only 3 of the last 14 top 10 wr picks lived up to their hype. No surprise, those 3 are megatron, fitz, and a. Johnson. I'm not counting either top 10 guy from last year. Too early to project anything there.

Blackmon projects not at all like any of the top 10 guys who actually lived up to the hype. To be short in the differences, he doesn't have the speed or size of megatron or a. Johnson. He doesn't have the ball skills of a fitz. He doesn't get the separation of any of the 3, nor the speed of any of the 3. A top 10 receiver is almost assuredly a bust, unless he's considered the best player in said draft, or very close.

Blackmon isn't, never was. He might prove history wrong, but all signs point towards him perpetuating the cycle. Crabtree 2.0.

@Tubbs was his pro day 40 time based on an electronic or manual timing? I'm gonna guess it was manual. He got 2 shots to run at the combine with electronic timing, and his best was a 4.55. Human reaction times on a stop watch can help him gain that extra .1+ second. All that is before seeing he has trouble separating in game film, vs collegiate dbs. That will only be more difficult vs pro dbs.

He's not worthy of a top 10 pick. I'd pick Floyd before him, still not in the top 10. Not much value there for a wr, unless he's truly special. Neither guy is. But Floyd gives you speed and size, and gets the separation. He creates mis matches. Blackmon won't, just like crabtree hasn't.

vancemeek
04-20-2012, 03:44 AM
I see things differently from, well, apparently everybody. Rey Maualuga is just not very good. There's also a pretty good chance that he's going to miss games from suspension. Dan Skuta is the likely backup, and that's just no good. As I said, Maualuga, even when in the game is pretty far below average. I don't expect the Bengals to draft him in the least, but with a deep WR class, I think a very good WR can be gotten in the 3rd round. The other possibility was to take Glenn or reach for Martin since we weren't doing trades.

mikesteelnation1
04-20-2012, 03:51 AM
I actually look at it the other way. Porter isn't quite good enough to dissuade me from selecting a CB, as I see him as more of a nickel guy. But with him on the roster, I think it gives Denver the necessary depth to go ahead and take a chance on a talent like Jenkins.

Porter is a very good nickel to average #2 cb. If Jenkins is there its a no brainer. The fountain of youth champ Bailey has used is about dried up. He's a shell of his former self at this point. Jenkins may be a gamble, but its a better gamble than the 1st rounder the donkeys used to trade up to grab Vernon Davis' little bro.. :)

IF, and its a BIG IF, Jenkins gets himself straight, at a pick that late its a steal. If he was a solid citizen he likely would be a top 15 pick.

mikesteelnation1
04-20-2012, 04:01 AM
I see things differently from, well, apparently everybody. Rey Maualuga is just not very good. There's also a pretty good chance that he's going to miss games from suspension. Dan Skuta is the likely backup, and that's just no good. As I said, Maualuga, even when in the game is pretty far below average. I don't expect the Bengals to draft him in the least, but with a deep WR class, I think a very good WR can be gotten in the 3rd round. The other possibility was to take Glenn or reach for Martin since we weren't doing trades.

Very good wr's can always be had in the 3rd if the staff can coach them up. I know I have a strong opinion here, but a 1st for a wr is mostly a waste, especially in the top 10. Receivers ability is mostly predicated on their ability to absorb and digest the scheme. Receivers are like a fine wine, they get better with age. They need time and coaching. Most aren't good their first year anyway.

The list of the top 10 wrs in the league has way more guys on it that weren't top 10 guys than guys that were. The success rate on many, many other positions isn't nearly the same. Receivers are a cool toy. None of that matters, if the rest of the team sucks. It's a complimentary piece, not a cornerstone. A top 10 pick should be a cornerstone. None of the current crop of wrs will be, IMHO.

tubbs1518
04-20-2012, 05:45 AM
You don't have to be a big fast guy to be a great WR.

packa7x
04-20-2012, 08:51 AM
You know he ran in the low 4.4's at his pro day right?

Eh, take Pro Days with a grain of salt unless the guy has a horrific one.

Trumpetbdw
04-20-2012, 09:33 AM
You don't have to be a big fast guy to be a great WR.

Who ever said that? We're not discussing an extremist opinion, we're discussing value. Based on the depth of this draft, especially at WR, Blackmon is only worth a top pick if he's a better bet than anyone else to be a superstar. My point is, without being 6'3", and without having legit 4.4 speed, especially in pads, he'd better have great hands and a great ability to gain separation to justify that pick. I'm in the middle on him. I have my doubts, but I'm not ready to dismiss him as being anything less than the best wr prospect in this draft.

Because he's the top wr, and because of the perceived success of both of last year's top wr, Blackmon has become portrayed as a sure thing. I'm not sold that he is a sure thing, and I am sold that even if he is, it will take him time. To me, that's enough that if I were in the Rams position, I'd either pass on him or move back. And if the murmers are any indication, perhaps the Rams aren't sold on him either, because rumors are they'd love to gain more picks and move out of the 6.

Trumpetbdw
04-20-2012, 09:36 AM
Porter is a very good nickel to average #2 cb. If Jenkins is there its a no brainer. The fountain of youth champ Bailey has used is about dried up. He's a shell of his former self at this point. Jenkins may be a gamble, but its a better gamble than the 1st rounder the donkeys used to trade up to grab Vernon Davis' little bro.. :)

IF, and its a BIG IF, Jenkins gets himself straight, at a pick that late its a steal. If he was a solid citizen he likely would be a top 15 pick.

Absolutely. But this all goes out the window if they end up making a move for Asante Samuel.

Trumpetbdw
04-20-2012, 09:43 AM
I agree ... with a but. My guess is that Tannehill will go in the 20's, but (<- see, there's my but) none of the teams in the 20's are looking for a QB. I think someone will trade back into the first round to take him and we didn't do trades. My 2nd but is that even without trades we should have taken him within the first 10 picks of the 2nd.

I can see late teens, but I really don't disagree at all. It will have to be a team trading back into round 1. The only team that makes some sense with a pick in the early 20s is Cleveland, but I don't see them taking him.

I'll reiterate my thoughts that KC is the wild card in the Tannehill sweepstakes. I've heard nothing to suggest that they're actually looking for a QB, but they certainly should be, in my opinion. If that's the case, I could even see a scenario where they make a move with St. Louis or Jax and move ahead of Miami to ensure they get him. Not saying it's likely, but there's always a dark horse team, and I think that's it.

packa7x
04-20-2012, 11:07 AM
Who ever said that? We're not discussing an extremist opinion, we're discussing value. Based on the depth of this draft, especially at WR, Blackmon is only worth a top pick if he's a better bet than anyone else to be a superstar. My point is, without being 6'3", and without having legit 4.4 speed, especially in pads, he'd better have great hands and a great ability to gain separation to justify that pick. I'm in the middle on him. I have my doubts, but I'm not ready to dismiss him as being anything less than the best wr prospect in this draft.

Because he's the top wr, and because of the perceived success of both of last year's top wr, Blackmon has become portrayed as a sure thing. I'm not sold that he is a sure thing, and I am sold that even if he is, it will take him time. To me, that's enough that if I were in the Rams position, I'd either pass on him or move back. And if the murmers are any indication, perhaps the Rams aren't sold on him either, because rumors are they'd love to gain more picks and move out of the 6.

+1 and I'd like to add on a point that I believe Mike made earlier. Many top-10 WRs are busts. For every AJ Green and Calvin Johnson, there is Troy Williamson, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Roy Williams...

GoBigOrGoHome
04-20-2012, 05:03 PM
+1 and I'd like to add on a point that I believe Mike made earlier. Many top-10 WRs are busts. For every AJ Green and Calvin Johnson, there is Troy Williamson, Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Roy Williams...

Point of order: Roy Williams, despite his poor showing in Dallas, was NOT a freaking bust. Dude made a Pro Bowl & racked up 82 catches for 1310 yards in 2006 on a pretty stinking awful football team. In 2007 playing opposite a young rookie named Calvin Johnson, Ol' Roy tallied another 64 catches for 838 yards serving in the role as Megatron's primary decoy. Those two seasons he was catching passes from Jon Kitna, not John Elway. Cut the douche some slack.

Rogers, Mike Williams? Yes. Spectacular busts. Roy Williams, underachiever? Yes. Bust? No.

GoBigOrGoHome
04-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Lots of talk in Detroit about the Lions possibly trading Cliff Avril and Pick #23 (including a sign & trade for Avril) to move into the 10-15 range so they have a good shot at Gilmore or one of the other other highly touted CBs.

Dunno if this is feasible...

Trumpetbdw
04-20-2012, 06:24 PM
Point of order: Roy Williams, despite his poor showing in Dallas, was NOT a freaking bust. Dude made a Pro Bowl & racked up 82 catches for 1310 yards in 2006 on a pretty stinking awful football team. In 2007 playing opposite a young rookie named Calvin Johnson, Ol' Roy tallied another 64 catches for 838 yards serving in the role as Megatron's primary decoy. Those two seasons he was catching passes from Jon Kitna, not John Elway. Cut the douche some slack.

Rogers, Mike Williams? Yes. Spectacular busts. Roy Williams, underachiever? Yes. Bust? No.

I agree with this. Also, can we call Troy Williamson a bust when everyone outside of Mel Kiper and Minnesota knew how that script would end?

Docta
04-20-2012, 10:17 PM
Wish I could have been there :( . First draft I've missed on the site.

And wax, Harrison Smith? :confused: Still would have been there in the 2nd.

GoBigOrGoHome
04-20-2012, 10:43 PM
Gotta say, it was strange not seeing Doc at the start of this draft. Is it time to do FP 2012 Mock Draft 2.0?

mkocs6
04-20-2012, 11:11 PM
I haven't been around for the last few days, but I definitely want to thank Trumpet for the tedious work he did transcribing all of this. It's much easier to digest. Now, on to what he's saying...



-One more WR thought... Big Ten WR will dominate rounds 3 and 4. Keshaun Martin, AJ Jenkins, Marvin McNutt, and Nick Toon all were not drafted here, yet all could be successful, and potential impact WRs in the NFL. Of those, I especially like the first 3.


-If I'm Dallas, this mock seems like a dream scenario. Barron and Worthy would be a coup if Dallas is able to pair the two of them.

-It's clear this draft will give Cleveland a lot of help. I hope (for their sake) that the Browns follow mkocs6's blueprint. An elite RB, OLB, and a solid OT would be a perfect start to give Colt McCoy one more chance to prove he can be an NFL QB. If I'm Cleveland, in round 3, I'd follow this up with one of my previously mentioned Big Ten WRs.


...which is clearly that, while I only had to draft for two teams and not four--like some superstars--I ran those teams like a shark. Had we tried for three rounds, wide receiver would have been the choice at the top of the third round, and hopefully a fast one. Anyway, thanks for the kind words about the draft strategy/outcomes for my teams.

Trumpetbdw
04-20-2012, 11:26 PM
Gotta say, it was strange not seeing Doc at the start of this draft. Is it time to do FP 2012 Mock Draft 2.0?

In. I want 6 teams this time.

Trumpetbdw
04-20-2012, 11:33 PM
...which is clearly that, while I only had to two teams and not four--like some superstars--I ran those teams like a shark. Had we tried for three rounds, wide receiver would have been the choice at the top of the third round, and hopefully a fast one. Anyway, thanks for the kind words about the draft strategy/outcomes for my teams.

Earned and deserved.

Hey, I only had 2 teams until adding Denver late. Didn't know about selecting for Tampa until literally the start of the draft. Saw earlier in the day I was pegged for Miami, and was fully prepared for the beating I was going to take for grabbing Tannehill.

mikesteelnation1
04-21-2012, 01:04 AM
You don't have to be a big fast guy to be a great WR.

Hold up a second Tubbs. You say this^^ but only a few replies ago in this post you said this:

" I personally seem to have a much higher opinion of Blackmon than you. I see him as TO without the problems. He is fast, big, strong, great hands, good route runner, isn't afraid to go over the middle."

So which is it? Is he big, fast, and strong or is it not necessary to be that way to be a great wide receiver? Blackmon isn't big or fast. I agree you don't need those attributes to succeed as a wr, however they are prefunctory requisites to being selected as a top 10 pick and being successful. History tells us both are true.

tubbs1518
04-21-2012, 03:42 AM
I think he is but you don't so I am replying to your opinion.

mikesteelnation1
04-22-2012, 03:26 AM
I think he is but you don't so I am replying to your opinion.

Well may I introduce you to this cool feature the site has.. right below where someone else posts something there's an icon that says "reply with quote" . When you click that, it copies that persons post into the reply box, and allows you to add what you think. Makes it much more definitive as to who, and what you're speaking to, and, or about with your reply.

I'd also suggest something longer than 14 words to express said premise, of said opinion. It's the internet, an no one here is a mind reader. We can only go on what's been written. 14 words leaves a lot up for interpretation, especially when its a general post, that's not in reply to what anyone's said in specific. :D