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Pruitt
10-12-2012, 08:05 AM
One of the plot arcs on this season's 30 Rock focusses on Jack Donaghy (Alec Baldwin) trying to "tank" NBC's season. Lower ratings will eventually allow him to advance up the corporate ladder.

On last night's episode, he said that he was going to ruin Sunday Night Football by showing nothing but Cleveland Browns' games.

A funny line...

edave
10-12-2012, 07:07 PM
One of the plot arcs on this season's 30 Rock focusses on Jack Donaghy (Alec Baldwin) trying to "tank" NBC's season. Lower ratings will eventually allow him to advance up the corporate ladder.

On last night's episode, he said that he was going to ruin Sunday Night Football by showing nothing but Cleveland Browns' games.

A funny line...

I've been going back and forth on Bengals @ Browns since Tuesday, I'm going to pick the Browns just because they have to get pissed off sometime. A division game seems like a good time for something good to happen.

vancemeek
10-12-2012, 07:53 PM
In some research earlier, I found Cincy has won 13 of the last 16 games, but the winning team has won by 10 or less in 12 of those games.

Pruitt
10-12-2012, 10:09 PM
I too have chosen the Browns in my pools.

While 30 Rock was absolutely hilarious last night, it's just a little jarring to realize that the Browns have replaced the Lions, Cardinals and Bengals as being a punch line.

Used to be that the Saints were the franchise that was made fun of the most often...

Andy Freeland
10-13-2012, 12:00 AM
Whenever a team goes through an extended period of suckitude they become the national punchline.

Homer Simpson: "now we just sit back and wait for an NFL team"
Random guy: "I represent the Arizona Cardinals and ..."
Homer: "keep walking"

Al Bundy: But the Bears play the Rams this week. If you lose to the Rams you get thrown out of the league.

There's another Simpsons where Krusty is on a USO tour where everything is 2nd rate, it includes the Bengals' cheerleaders.

If you go back far enough I'm sure you can find some form of national joke about almost every franchise. The oldest I can think of offhand is: Washington: first in war, first in peace, last in the American League.

DaBearsFan
10-13-2012, 12:13 AM
"Aww, the Denver Broncos?" - Homer Simpson upon learning the NFL team he now owned was not his dream Dallas Cowboys (ironically, when this episode aired, the Broncos were 8-1, and would win their first of two Super Bowls the following year. Had to look it up, no credit here)

mikesteelnation1
10-13-2012, 04:11 AM
In some research earlier, I found Cincy has won 13 of the last 16 games, but the winning team has won by 10 or less in 12 of those games.

{Not to pile on}. But Pittsburgh has gone 19-2 since 2001 vs the browns. {Forgive me for not looking up the ravens records h2h with the browns, Que kaba}.

Sorry but when you've gone 5-27 in the division vs the steelers and Bengals over 11 years (with the Bengals being a lot of "the other doormat" during that time frame, you deserve the slams for sucking on broadcast tv. :D

The browns have well earned their national punchline status...

mkocs6
10-13-2012, 04:51 PM
I too have chosen the Browns in my pools.

While 30 Rock was absolutely hilarious last night, it's just a little jarring to realize that the Browns have replaced the Lions, Cardinals and Bengals as being a punch line.

Used to be that the Saints were the franchise that was made fun of the most often...

How I Met Your Mother made a joke at the Browns' expense this week. Of course, the show's creator is from Cleveland and so is the character Ted, and I don't know about 30 Rock, but Cleveland has either featured or been mentioned in enough episodes (Floyd, jokes about Jack's friendship with the owner of the Browns, last night) that I wouldn't be surprised if there's a contributing writer from the city. Just a thought.

Anyway, whatever.

mkocs6
10-14-2012, 08:40 PM
Well, I guess we can all calm down a little bit...

vancemeek
10-14-2012, 08:47 PM
Well, I guess we can all calm down a little bit...

Not in Cincinnati. The world ended early.

mkocs6
10-14-2012, 08:53 PM
We almost had a grand slam this week. Browns win and the Steelers, Bengals, and Ravens all lose. Only missed by about a foot and a half.

Pruitt
10-15-2012, 06:51 AM
The Browns are clearly not a good team... but I honestly think they could beat a number of teams with decent records.

Watched the Bills-Cardinals game yesterday. Arizona has the capability of losing 8 straight games. And they are tied in first.

mkocs6
10-15-2012, 01:15 PM
Well, they're certainly not good, but I think I speak for most Browns fans when I say that if you haven't won a game since last November, you start to go a little stir-crazy. We needed to win a game, and we won a game. We're not good, but as I've said before, there is more raw talent in Cleveland right now than there has been at any time since maybe the 1990s, and certainly at least since the Butch Davis era. We're talented enough right now to stay competitive with most teams, but also young enough to lose to most of them. I still think they will get better, but for now it's just nice to win one.

Pruitt
10-15-2012, 01:27 PM
Also, the Browns would cream the Chiefs.

Bengals1181
10-15-2012, 01:53 PM
Browns were always better than their 0-5 record. I thought they'd be a 6-10 team this year, and without looking at their schedule they still might get there.


Bengals had a chance to put them away, and to the Browns credit it didn't happen.

Bengals1181
10-15-2012, 01:54 PM
Also, the Browns would cream the Chiefs.

I'm inclined to agree, but considering the ravens only beat the chiefs by 3, I dunno.

mkocs6
10-15-2012, 02:06 PM
Also, the Browns would cream the Chiefs.

Yeah. They have all our old players and coaches. And the Browns will get a chance to prove your hypothesis.

Being honest, I think they can beat Oakland and Indianapolis. I still don't believe in Washington, and I have serious doubts about Denver. Don't get me wrong on Denver, I think they're better than we are, and so are Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego, and Dallas. Especially with Baltimore's recent injuries, though, I don't see anyone on that schedule that looks unstoppable. They're certainly not going 11-5, but 5-11 is well within reach, and that's a hell of a lot better than things looked at 0-5.

mkocs6
10-15-2012, 02:22 PM
I'm inclined to agree, but considering the ravens only beat the chiefs by 3, I dunno.

We'd have some trouble stopping Jamaal Charles, but I have faith in Brian Daboll to light things up in the first quarter and then be completely unable to adjust to the defense. Also, at least we get KC at home.


Browns were always better than their 0-5 record. I thought they'd be a 6-10 team this year, and without looking at their schedule they still might get there.

This is probably true, as well, but they went just a little too long without a win. They really ought to have beaten Philly, Buffalo is clearly skittish enough to be beaten had the Browns not played their worst game of the season against them, and Baltimore tried to give the Browns that Thursday night game. They needed one of those. In any case, looking at their schedule, I don't think six wins for the season is completely unreasonable.

mkocs6
10-15-2012, 02:42 PM
Also, the Browns don't play them this year, but let us not forget how terrible Jacksonville is just because they didn't play this week.

vancemeek
10-15-2012, 06:03 PM
The Ravens only beat the Chiefs by 3 but the Ravens aren't as good as their record says they are either.

Nancy
10-15-2012, 06:51 PM
Not in Cincinnati. The world ended early.

Indeed. Now all of my teams are laughingstocks. Again.

mikesteelnation1
10-16-2012, 12:03 AM
The ravens endured huge defensive losses this weekend, and like vance said they aren't as good as their record. The afcn will still end up being a physical dogfight. Especially after the steelers beat the bengals Sunday, and the ravens get drop kicked by the texans. :)

Pruitt
11-05-2012, 01:18 PM
Not to flog a dead horse - but that's all we Browns fans can do anymore:

Recent runs against AFC North Rivals:

Versus Cincinnati 4-14
Versus Baltimore 0-10
Versus Pittsburgh 2-18

mkocs6
11-05-2012, 01:50 PM
I was upset, particularly at the draw on 3rd & 11 after the Gordon touchdown got called back (conceding that a field goal was fine) and then at going for it on 4th & 2 inside their own 30 with 4 minutes to play and with two timeouts, only trailing by one score. It was terrible. Five red zone trips, five field goals. Weeden looked hesitant, but we got so predictable. I agree that we should give Trent Richardson the ball a lot--especially against a run defense as bad as Baltimore's--but I don't think we should just give him the ball on 1st down every time. That's...kind of predictable. And even the 30th-ranked run defense in the NFL can slow you down when they know it's coming in a particular situation. I don't know why we didn't even go for the end zone in the red zone on Sunday.

Defense played very poorly in the first quarter--as did the whole team--but they played admirably from then on. Obviously, it's not good enough to bad in the first and great for the next two and a half because you simply can't spot teams 14 points. At the same time, though, the offense had plenty of opportunities to score touchdowns and they never did. I really want to know what the hell Brad Childress does. We wasted three timeouts yesterday because we did not have plays in on time. I know Shurmur is the playcaller (duties he clearly should have given up by now), and I know Childress organizes the offense during the week, but what the hell is the process by which plays are called like? Why are substitution patterns so erratic and confused? Why do we commit so many procedural penalties (like the one that cost us a potential game-winning touchdown on Sunday)? Some of these things are entirely about coaching, and others at least as much about coaching as they are about players.

I honestly like what I see out of a lot of our players. I really hope I get to see them working with someone who is competent next season.

edave
11-05-2012, 05:11 PM
I really want to know what the hell Brad Childress does.

Packers fans were sad to see Chilly leave Minnesota, you have our sympathy. He's probably the voice in Shurmur's ear when he's doing inexplicable things on fourth down.

darvon
11-06-2012, 07:07 AM
How about we get a plan for the Browns.

1) Get a good GM.

Do we steal one, or hire an assistant?

Who is out there that is a LOCK?

Rich Gapinski
11-06-2012, 07:51 AM
It honestly seems like Pat Shurmur is tanking it for some reason. Is he so clueless that he doesn't know that it means he will lose his job?

Browns should have two wins against Baltimore and one against Philly and were a drop away from beating the playoff-bound Colts. That close to being 6-3.

The play-calling has been horrid in a way that the calls never seem to understand the situation at hand (like throwing with a rookie 50+ times when a Heisman caliber running back is standing on the sideline). Take the great stat by Bill Barnwell today about nine chances at a 3rd or 4th down with two yards or less and throwing ALL NINE times. Meanwhile, the Ravens have recently allowed the most rushing yards over two weeks in their history and the running back I mentioned (who had 100+ yds and 4+ YPC in the game) sat idly by. That's the kind of stuff I mean.

Rich Gapinski
11-06-2012, 07:53 AM
How about we get a plan for the Browns.

1) Get a good GM.

Do we steal one, or hire an assistant?

Who is out there that is a LOCK?

The drafts have been good enough in the last two years that many believe Tom Heckert should keep his job. Amazingly, I agree. The fingers are being pointed at the HC.

Trumpetbdw
11-06-2012, 08:07 AM
If they do go the new GM route, could Haslam use his Steeler ties to try and lure Omar Khan to Cleveland?

Trumpetbdw
11-06-2012, 08:23 AM
Also, a bit lost in the Chuck Pagano story is that Bruce Arians is showing himself to be a rather decent HC.

I've been one of the two loudest critics of Arians on this site. However, that criticism was borne in the notion that the Steelers stagnated on offense and needed to make a change. That doesn't mean I think Arians is a terrible coach. Plus, I'm not one who believes being a good or bad coordinator has any correlation with being a good HC. A Head Coach requires a different skill set altogether than being a coordinator. Arians seems to have done a fine job leading that team through a pretty significant crisis, has shown the character and leadership of a good HC, and may be putting himself in line for a big opportunity on the NFL level. Plus, he does have some experience as a HC from his time at Temple (1983-1988).

I think Arians could be a really interesting name to follow, especially if Indy finds themselves in the playoffs.

mkocs6
11-06-2012, 12:25 PM
I know that we all respect the Steelers' management and ability to build football teams on this site, but the Browns are not going to be successful if they just ape Pittsburgh. That success is an organizational product. It's not just executives setting the tone; it is the sum of experienced scouts, competent coaches, and able management. Importing one executive does not bring that network with him, and attempting to establish that network doesn't bring the same results unless you have the same caliber people, who are difficult to find. I think Jimmy Haslam understands this. The structures of any regime are important--and in many ways dictate how things are done--but the best system is useless without the right staff. It's much more important to get good football people in the building top-to-bottom than it is to grab a Pittsburgh executive on the notion that he will bring their managerial style to Cleveland, because he sure as hell isn't bringing the rest of the franchise with him.

For what it's worth, the Browns under H&H have acquired talent in terms of player personnel, so while I don't have much personal knowledge of the scouting department, I approve of the job they're doing at least in general. It's young, raw talent, but it's talent and it's something we can work with. Considering Holmgren's background as a coach, it's a pretty bitter pill to swallow that his decisions on coaching personnel have been so poor: first to retain Mangini for an extra season when that was clearly not necessary and next to hire the inexperienced, unmitigated disaster in Shurmur. I know every team in the NFL plays close games. I know most 2-7 teams could make a claim that they very reasonably could be 6-3, as Rich suggested, and 3-1 in the AFC North. The loss to Philly may be on Weeden, but the rest of this is on Shurmur's head and it's particularly bad because the same mistakes keep repeating themselves: predictable playcalling; wasted timeouts due to slow playcalling and substitution issues; procedural penalties; flatness in the first quarter; inability to convert on 3rd and short; and a lack of understanding of critical game situations in the second half (when you go for it on 4th down and when you attempt a two-point conversion). The difference between the 2-7 Browns and a team like Seattle, Tampa Bay, or Minnesota is between the ears of a couple guys on the sideline.

Pruitt
11-06-2012, 03:29 PM
Bill Simmons and Cousin Sal agreed that talent-wise the Browns and the Ravens are basically even. They also feel that Shurmur and staff have cost the team dearly.

And who is it that hired Shurmur, Childress and Jauron - take a bow Mike Holmgren. Labor Day weekend 2013 can't come soon enough.

Curtis
11-06-2012, 06:01 PM
Also, a bit lost in the Chuck Pagano story is that Bruce Arians is showing himself to be a rather decent HC.

I've been one of the two loudest critics of Arians on this site. However, that criticism was borne in the notion that the Steelers stagnated on offense and needed to make a change. That doesn't mean I think Arians is a terrible coach. Plus, I'm not one who believes being a good or bad coordinator has any correlation with being a good HC. A Head Coach requires a different skill set altogether than being a coordinator. Arians seems to have done a fine job leading that team through a pretty significant crisis, has shown the character and leadership of a good HC, and may be putting himself in line for a big opportunity on the NFL level. Plus, he does have some experience as a HC from his time at Temple (1983-1988).

I think Arians could be a really interesting name to follow, especially if Indy finds themselves in the playoffs.

Arians has been successful in the NFL. The Steelers situation was an anomaly. I had said somewhere in these forums that Ben's overinflated sense of self led to Arians fall. And Arians didn't help by giving into him. Pity. He is doing quite well in Indy. He may get a shot at HC next year. There should be a few openings.

Arians at Temple was a mess. When I was in HS at Lincoln, Temple was a school that wanted to recruit me. He was HC at the time and they had no talent. I went to Temple anyway but I didn't want to play football. I wanted to be Mr Universe. Anyway, Arians was fired the following year.

darvon
11-06-2012, 09:42 PM
The drafts have been good enough in the last two years that many believe Tom Heckert should keep his job. Amazingly, I agree. The fingers are being pointed at the HC.

I am not sanguine with the org structure of Pres and GM. I understand that there are a lot of non-personnel matters to be worked upon, but the architect of the personnel is the key person. If someone else has more power, then that person is the de facto GM

You tell me Holmgren is worrying about Parking and Marketing tie-ins? Holmgren is the GM and Heckert is his assistant

Rich Gapinski
11-06-2012, 10:44 PM
I am not sanguine with the org structure of Pres and GM. I understand that there are a lot of non-personnel matters to be worked upon, but the architect of the personnel is the key person. If someone else has more power, then that person is the de facto GM

You tell me Holmgren is worrying about Parking and Marketing tie-ins? Holmgren is the GM and Heckert is his assistant

I am familiar with executive structure. While it is true that Holmgren could overrule Heckert at any time; it is unlikely he has done so much with the draft. Mike's failures in the draft (except for Steve Hutchinson) forced him out of the GM role he had in Seattle after four years of doing it from 1999 to 2002. Holmgren has been routinely ripped in Cleveland for spending much of his time in expensive restaurants and not doing anything in the front office. There is a joke a that the only visible thing he did in 2010 was tell guys to paint names for the Browns ring of honor with 16 names. I think the inaction to keep Mangini for a de facto lame duck year was already mentioned.

The youth on Cleveland's roster has Heckert more to thank than Holmgren. It IS likely that Mike had a much bigger say than years past because Heckert had heart surgery and missed the NFL combine. Weeden feels more like a Holmgren pick than a Heckert plan, but I am sure there has been a few others.

mikesteelnation1
11-07-2012, 01:05 AM
If they do go the new GM route, could Haslam use his Steeler ties to try and lure Omar Khan to Cleveland?

Khan wouldn't be a good fit. He doesn't fill the need the browns have in a gm. Khan and banner are basically the same guy. Cap wizards, chief negotiators, guys who deal with the business end of things.

As Cleveland is currently constituted with banner at the top, they need a football guy that has solid business acumen. A guy who can unify everything, but he's got to be the football front man. Unless the browns go get a coach and give the personnel decisions to him, ala what the rams did with Jeff fisher. That's why they called on Khan. They had their football guy. They needed a business guy.

As far as arians goes (I'm the other loud critic), trumpet is spot on. He is a good coach, but hit his ceiling with what he could do as an oc with the steelers. It wasn't bens attitude, it was that arians fed into it and did what Ben wanted. That's never fruitful. Arians was the problem, not Ben. The boss needs to do his job and not pander to the diva child. Ben may share some blame in that regard, but its the boss' job to reign him in. Arians couldn't and didn't.

Arians has done quite well as the interim hc in indy. Perhaps his skills are better suited for that role. I will say this though. If I covered up the names on the colts stat sheet last week, I can tell you that it SCREAMS that arians finger prints are all over it. 400+ yards from your qb with a good completion %, great ypa, and ONLY 23 pts on the board as a result. All the while the qb is getting hit like crazy. It was like deja vu. Just like reading a Ben stat line from 2010 or 2011.

darvon
11-07-2012, 03:26 AM
I think the tendancy is to think the B- performer is "acceptable". I think that is a mistake.

I don't know anything about Heckert. But take a look at the 2010 49ers. That was a team that had done OK in the draft but needed a coach for player dev. and driving the team to the playoffs.

The Browns do NOT look like the 2010 49ers.

Heckert hasn't picked anyone who made the ProBowl, right?
Do you think Heckert is BETTER than 16 of the other GMs? If not, he isn't even average.

The Lions have a pretty good structure with a Prez, GM and coach. But the Prez does the Business stuff AND hires the coach and the GM, which seems to be a good job description. When Millen was here, his first year he tried to do Business and Personnel, and he bombed so he gave the Business to Tom Lewand, who when Millen was picked, took "constructing Ford Field" as his job instead of running the Lions.

He did a fantastic and smooth job on Ford Field. When Millen finally understood he couldn't do business and personnel, he gave the Business side to Lewand.

Lewand did a great job while everyone in America figured out Millen couldn't do the personnel side. When Millen Left, Lewand became King and pickked our new GM and coach. They have been doing pretty well, though weaker in the last couple of years. His high point was the trade with Jerry Jones.

I suggest you spin again on GM.

Rich Gapinski
11-07-2012, 10:18 AM
Heckert was with Philly from 2001-2009 as GM and has been in Cleveland since 2010

No Pro Bowls yet, but certainly some guys who are on their way to Pro Bowl-types. Besides, the Pro Bowl is a bad way to rate drafts. In my research over the last three years, the keys to a good draft is not missing on high picks and getting about 10 starters over the course of every three years. I want five years worth of data before really drawing conclusions, but I do see a correlation to missing on getting starters in high rounds to a loss of about 2 wins two years after the misses.

2010 1 7 Joe Haden DB CLE- Starter, possible Pro Bowler
2010 2 38 T.J. Ward DB CLE- Starter
2010 2 59 Montario Hardesty RB CLE- Third-String RB
2010 3 85 Colt McCoy QB CLE- Back-Up QB
2010 3 92 Shawn Lauvao T CLE- Starting OL
2010 5 160 Larry Asante DB CLE- Cut in 2012, played 12 games for Bucs, Out of League
2010 6 177 Carlton Mitchell WR CLE- No starts, 16 games played
2010 6 186 Clifton Geathers DE CLE- Currently a Colt, plays sparingly
2011 1 21 Phil Taylor DT CLE- Consistent Starter. Hurt for 1st half of 2012
2011 2 37 Jabaal Sheard DE CLE- Starter. 24 Starts and 10 sacks in career
2011 2 59 Greg Little WR CLE- Starter
2011 4 102 Jordan Cameron TE CLE- 5 Starts. 18 catches. Becoming bigger part of offense.
2011 4 124 Owen Marecic RB CLE- Head injuries hurt 2011. Average FB, but is #1 FB.
2011 5 137 Buster Skrine DB CLE- Started first two games of 2012. Reduced role since.
2011 5 150 Jason Pinkston T CLE- Starter. Out remainder of 2012 with blood clot.
2011 7 248 Eric Hagg DB CLE- Two starts this season.
2012 1 3 Trent Richardson RB CLE- Starter
2012 1 22 Brandon Weeden QB CLE- Starter
2012 2 37 Mitchell Schwartz T CLE- Starter
2012 3 87 John Hughes DT CLE- Splits time with Billy Winn.Two starts. Space filler with one sack.
2012 4 100 Travis Benjamin WR CLE- Slot WR. Deep threat. Missed games due to injury. 9-134 and a TD.
2012 4 120 J.M. Johnson LB CLE- Started in place of Scott Fujita
2012 5 160 Ryan Miller G CLE- On Bench.
2012 6 204 Emmanuel Acho LB CLE- On Special Teams
2012 6 205 Billy Winn DE CLE- Slowly overtaking Hughes' playing time. One sack. Two fumbles recovered.
2012 7 245 Trevin Wade DB CLE- See time in some Nickel and Dime looks.
2012 7 247 Brad Smelley FB CLE- Stinks. Just kidding. Team likes him, but giving Marecic more time.

That's a solid start with some play-makers possible. Not even listed here is the selection of Josh Gordon for a 2013 2nd rounder. He has 19 catches for 417 yards and 4 touchdowns.

That's the Browns under Heckert. I conclude that it is better than B-, but that's just my opinion.

Pruitt
11-07-2012, 11:39 AM
When and if the starters prove that they are capable of helping a team win games, than I will deem Heckert to be a good GM. But merely starting in the NFL does not mean that a player is all that good.

After all, every team has 22 starters. Even a 2-7 team.

mkocs6
11-07-2012, 11:55 AM
Darvon, I don't mean to put you off, but how much of the Browns have you actually seen this year? I ask for a very specific reason. I listen to or watch the Browns every week. I'm not satisfied with our overall record, but I am satisfied with the way the team has been assembled. The average age of the 2010 San Francisco 49ers was 26.7; the average for the 2012 Cleveland Browns is over a full year younger at 25.6, and it would be even younger were Weeden not already 29. This team is young, young, young. You can't simply evaluate players in terms of wins and losses. They need a little time to grow.

I agree with Rich, as I have posted (http://footballpros.com/showthread.php/11852-Article-Cleveland-Has-No-Marbles?p=125083#post125083) on this topic (http://footballpros.com/entry.php/132-A-Brief-History-of-the-Browns-or-Why-We-Will-Be-Better-But-Still-Struggle-in-2011) several times before. (http://footballpros.com/showthread.php/11936-Article-Browns-Now-Owned-By-Haslam-Holmgren-Out?p=126090#post126090) Heckert probably deserves to be brought back, but, in the words of William Munny, deserve's got nothin' to do with it. That Shurmur is a bad--really, awful--head coach falls more on Holmgren than Heckert, and even Shurmur had to play much of the first half without the two previous years' first round picks: Joe Haden (4 game suspensions) and Phil Taylor (missed first eight with a torn pec). Those are serious blows to a young defense. I know everyone gets injuries and everyone can sympathize but no one really cares. The Browns are about to see those first two draft classes become 3rd and 4th year contributors next year, with this year's group on the horizon. Heckert has built something... and we're going to see it pretty soon, I think. Hopefully, without Shurmur.

xmenehune
11-07-2012, 02:57 PM
I've noticed that Holmgrem had a decent D, but missed on WRs while at SEA, he seems to have done about the same with CLE.
With the exception of QB it's about the same for most positions(no specifics with my hazy memory). Weeden needs time and a WR corp cured of the 'dropsies'. For now their best chance to win is to play 'keep away', but I agree play calling has been unimaginative. So does Shurmur go by/around DEC or after the season? Maybe mgmt keeps him around and they'll have a better pick.
Picking up WR Gordon was a good move for QB, maybe they should trade for Blackmon. I know, I know not likely, but when their was chemistry I think it can be rebuilt. Weeden and his current crop of WR don't seem to be on the same page and lack of chemistry is evident. You'd have thought OTA and such would have been enough, but it's not, not with this year's version. I just don't think Weeden has the supporting cast @WR that Luck has or even Tannehill (I'm not including RGIII due to O scheme).

darvon
11-07-2012, 06:52 PM
First get a GM you think can beat 16 other GMs.

Then go to step 2