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View Full Version : Will Big Ben's 'injuries' end up hurting him?



Curtis
11-14-2012, 11:01 PM
It's no secret that Ben is always hurt. He plays through injuries that would bench mortal man. He's the ultimate competitor, tough guy, cyborg....yeah we have heard this endlessly. So are the injuries real or are they made up? Here are some thoughts to get the discussion going.

Why would Ben want to put every ache and pain out there to the public, the other teams and the Steelers? I mean think about it. He is more willing to volunteer specifics about his injuries than any player I have ever seen.

Is he a drama queen that embellishes injuries publicly so he can be a hero on the field?
Why specifically point out every flaw you have to your upcoming opponent? Fake injury, fight through fake pain, win game and be a hero.

Ben's game has always been running around, extending plays and taking risks. But as a result, he has gotten many, many injuries. Embellished or not, the Steelers ownership has made changes to the staff and the offense to protect their "injury prone" QB. Ben was openly pissed about that. And even took shots at Haley about the dink and dunk.

At what point do the Steelers front office decide that Ben is an injury liability?

mikesteelnation1
11-15-2012, 01:47 AM
I'm sorry, but most of the issues with Ben's injuries and him talking about them have stemmed from the post mortem discussions Ben has had. When he told folks about injuries that had not been on the injury report. Has he run his mouth too much in that regard? Yup. Chastising him for attending speaking about a clear injury during a presser set up by the front office? Not so much.

The Steelers are one of, if not the largest brand in football. Our elite starting qb got injured, left the game, and was taken to the hospital for tests. The results of which, the customer (us fans) want to know. Why shouldn't he share that? It doesn't give the opposition any advantage. He's hurt, and its his throwing shoulder. Everyone in the tv viewing audience knew that. Of course the other team does. No different than his prior ankle , first shoulder injury, or foot injuries give any tactical advantage. Him talking about prior injuries no one knew about was him stroking his own feathers. So he's not the nicest person. So what? We've all discussed both the injuries and Ben's personality prior, and we've all agreed he's been a douche prior, and needs to not bring up the phantom injuries that were never reported.

Ben never took shots at Haley. He called the offense for what it is. That quick hit stuff had Ben on pace for his career low in sacks/attempt. The brass did call for Ben getting hit less, and he has. He got a freak injury on a regular drop, not one where he was freelancing and holding the ball too long. The line broke down and Ben got crushed doing exactly what the brass wanted. Was Ben pissed when they capped his golf buddy and off-season neighbor? Absolutely. Was it the right call in hindsight? Absolutely. Before the injury Ben was playing the best season of ball in his NFL career.

Calling a guy who's missed 13 games to injury in 9 professional seasons, behind that line, is laughable. Saying the Rooney's would even think of cutting ties is preposterous. You don't cut one of the 4 elite qbs in the league because he got hurt.

It's clear, you don't like Ben or the Steelers. That's fine. Not sure how this thread adds much value. If he's a drama queen that embellishes, it's certainly a character flaw, but if it emboldens him to deliver like he has, so be it. He certainly isn't now. If he's injury prone in youreyes so be it I'll take a near 70% win %, getting to a sb 38% of his years, and winning 67% of those. Add to that 50% of his seasons end with an AFC champ game, winning 75% of those.

I'm just sayin... :)

packa7x
11-15-2012, 08:09 AM
He reminds me a lot of Brett Favre. I remember back in 2002 Lavar Arrington got Favre and twisted his knee up. He laid on the field rolling in pain and was carted off. All week was "wahhhh wahhhh wahhh it hurts it hurts!!!!!". They had a bye so he rested it up...it was a sprained ACL. He comes back vs Miami after the bye and the FIRST PLAY he runs a bootleg. Or a good example of Ben is n XLV. He gets crushed on a play and gets up limping. He stays in the game and he RUNS with the ball the very next play and is suddenly the fastest guy on the field. I don't think it's intentional with either guy though. It may just be a coping mechanism.

ScottDCP
11-15-2012, 10:55 AM
I think he is mostly proud of doing it and likes to brag a bit afterward. The thing you have indirectly pointed out is that he doesn't think ahead very much. I have always thought he was a dumbass while swearing at him for breaking tackles and being accurate when he has had no right to be.

Curtis
11-15-2012, 01:03 PM
Calling a guy who's missed 13 games to injury in 9 professional seasons, behind that line, is laughable. Saying the Rooney's would even think of cutting ties is preposterous. You don't cut one of the 4 elite qbs in the league because he got hurt.

It's clear, you don't like Ben or the Steelers. That's fine. Not sure how this thread adds much value. If he's a drama queen that embellishes, it's certainly a character flaw, but if it emboldens him to deliver like he has, so be it. He certainly isn't now. If he's injury prone in youreyes so be it I'll take a near 70% win %, getting to a sb 38% of his years, and winning 67% of those. Add to that 50% of his seasons end with an AFC champ game, winning 75% of those.

I'm just sayin... :)

First, I never said they would or should cut Ben. I simply asked at what point do the Rooney's decide enough is enough. Second, if you don't think the Rooney's would never cut the 2 ring top 4 elite Ben, then your thinking could be called preposterous. They were prepared to release him after the second sexual assault charges came up. He is only still on the team under the condition that he keeps his nose clean. One hair out of line and he's gone.

At what point do they look to draft his replacement? They've drafted 2 QB's in 9 years, the most recent was Dixon in 08. Come April it will be 5 years since they drafted a QB. When all they have behind Ben is Leftwich and Batch I think the time is now to look for the future. This is the reason Tomlin wanted to sign Vick when the Falcons released him in 09, but the assault charges hit Ben at that time and the Rooney's nixed signing Vick because it would add to the negative PR.

You say Ben is injury prone in my eyes? I would say he is injury prone to many eyes. As a matter of fact, I've heard that term about Ben and other QB;s like Vick and Stafford for a few years now. It's not like I just pulled it out of my butt. Look at the list of injuries. It's like an illustrated orthopedic diagram. Mike Vick has been called injury prone, and everyone points out that he has only played a full 16 game season once in his career. Guess what? Ben has only played a full 16 games season once in his career.

This thread is meant as an objective discussion about how the injuries can be perceived by media, fans and the ultimately the team. Don't try to spin this by making my intentions of this thread seem to be subjective. I don't like Ben and I'm not a fan of the Steelers but my ties to that city are deep and I have discussions with those Steelers fans every single day. I have a finger on the pulse of the fans there and I hear the good and bad and the ugly. Not every Steelers fan likes Ben, not every fan likes Tomlin. Everything I've said here is no different than what they are talking about there.

If you don't think this thread adds value, that's fine, don't post in it and find one you deem worthy.

vancemeek
11-15-2012, 01:10 PM
Mike, you said there needed to be more conversational posts and arguing is good. You can claim it has no value just because it negatively talks about the Steelers.

packa7x
11-15-2012, 02:04 PM
I think Ben is absolutely injury prone. They call Aaron Rodgers injury prone because he had 2 concussions and broke his leg in 2006. Injury prone doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to miss time, but it does mean that his style of play is correlated to a high injury rate. Listening to sports doctors talk about whether a player is more "injury prone" than others, the conclusion reached is that unless it's something like an ACL that has a greater chance of reinjury after the First injury, nobody is really injury prone, it's more what they do on the field. Ben runs around like a mad man but tries to complete passes instead of running. The guy just gets caught in awkward positions a lot.

mikesteelnation1
11-16-2012, 12:50 AM
Mike, you said there needed to be more conversational posts and arguing is good. You can claim it has no value just because it negatively talks about the Steelers.

Vance I did say there needed to be more conversational posts and that arguing was ok, as long as it wasn't disrespectful. I wasn't, nor was Curtis. I also in that same rant said the morality police need to let things lie, and leave people be when they were debating as long as it was respectful. Perhaps you didn't read all of what I said. Like it seems you didn't here.

I said I didn't see how the thread added value, not that it doesn't. That was a direct reply to Curtis, not anyone else. Not sure why you felt the need to interject, with no skin in the game and no posted opinion on the matter. Curtis certainly didn't need any help in defending his thoughts, he does just.fine on his own.

No one cursed, no one insulted the other. Just 2 adults having a respectful discussion from differing points of view. Not to be suppositional on Curtis' part, but I think he will agree, we don't need the morality police to referee our discussions. We can handle that on our own. :)

I'll also point out that my question as to the value it added had nothing to do with being negative about the Steelers. If you read my post it spoke of the things Curtis mentioned that we have all discussed and mostly agreed about here before. In his reply to me he clarified his POV, and I'll reply to that post to address it specifically with him.

Feel free to share your opinion in the matter, but no need for a mother hen. That kills conversations. It sure did here. I don't count packa, no one {ever seems to shut him up} :p

vancemeek
11-16-2012, 01:34 AM
I read your post.

mikesteelnation1
11-16-2012, 01:59 AM
First, I never said they would or should cut Ben. I simply asked at what point do the Rooney's decide enough is enough. Second, if you don't think the Rooney's would never cut the 2 ring top 4 elite Ben, then your thinking could be called preposterous. They were prepared to release him after the second sexual assault charges came up. He is only still on the team under the condition that he keeps his nose clean. One hair out of line and he's gone.

At what point do they look to draft his replacement? They've drafted 2 QB's in 9 years, the most recent was Dixon in 08. Come April it will be 5 years since they drafted a QB. When all they have behind Ben is Leftwich and Batch I think the time is now to look for the future. This is the reason Tomlin wanted to sign Vick when the Falcons released him in 09, but the assault charges hit Ben at that time and the Rooney's nixed signing Vick because it would add to the negative PR.

You say Ben is injury prone in my eyes? I would say he is injury prone to many eyes. As a matter of fact, I've heard that term about Ben and other QB;s like Vick and Stafford for a few years now. It's not like I just pulled it out of my butt. Look at the list of injuries. It's like an illustrated orthopedic diagram. Mike Vick has been called injury prone, and everyone points out that he has only played a full 16 game season once in his career. Guess what? Ben has only played a full 16 games season once in his career.

This thread is meant as an objective discussion about how the injuries can be perceived by media, fans and the ultimately the team. Don't try to spin this by making my intentions of this thread seem to be subjective. I don't like Ben and I'm not a fan of the Steelers but my ties to that city are deep and I have discussions with those Steelers fans every single day. I have a finger on the pulse of the fans there and I hear the good and bad and the ugly. Not every Steelers fan likes Ben, not every fan likes Tomlin. Everything I've said here is no different than what they are talking about there.

If you don't think this thread adds value, that's fine, don't post in it and find one you deem worthy.

I said I didn't see how this thread added value, not that it didn't. As a group we've taken most of the discussed topics to task. The ones I addressed. We all mostly agree. Don't play up your injuries, and don't be a douche. Check and check. Now that you've clarified your point we can discuss it further. Forgive my supposition about your bias about the team or Ben. However you can't blame me for doing so, since you're quite vocal in those regards :) I took a stance based on that.. that said let's talk the other points...

There's no way any of us can say anything for sure about what transpired between Ben and the rooneys regarding the allegations. They weren't going to cut him, that much is clear. They did shop him for picks though, but the rams wouldn't jump high enough. The Rooneys may have high morals, but they also make exceptions for exceptional players. It's a business, you do what's best for it. As such, Ben is married.to the team through his contract. They couldn't afford to cut him even if they wanted to.

Saying he's injury prone and using captain Charmin in Detroit, and Vick as parallels isnt the best of comparisons. None of them are even close to comparable in style or success.

I get it your plugged in to Pittsburgh, as am I. I just disregard the doom and gloom and go on what I see. The Pittsburgh fan base is maniacal, as is the eagles. What the masses say and think, added to what the talking heads say and think, isn't always indicative of what the plugged in fans think.. it's all relative in the further explanations of what your op had suggested.

We can debate the particulars, and I'm glad to, but your op read like an ESPN article based on what we've said here prior. Glad we got it figured out sans the morality police and have come to the nuts and bolts of the discussion.. :)

mikesteelnation1
11-16-2012, 02:13 AM
I read your post.

No offense, but I'm not sure you did, taking things in the context I wrote them and letting folks argue, as I posted about that. All I'm going to say. Leave folks alone to debate a topic amongst themselves unless they get disrespectful. If you've nothing to add, say nothing and leave thosefolks be to discuss the topic. Let the discussion go... Like you should have here. Share your opinion on the topic, but if you're not adding to the discussion, and no one is out of line let it be. Just sayin..

vancemeek
11-16-2012, 12:16 PM
Thanks Mike. You're doing exactly what you said for me to not do, except you wrote an entire diatribe off-topic. Just pointing out that you are defensive anytime anybody says anything about the Steelers, in all threads, for example, when I selected Tim Brown over Bettis in the HOF brackets. It was relevant to the topic. As for your post, you're right. I just made up the fact that I took an entire 30 seconds to read your post. {}. I'll stop, so I don't kill the thread. {}

Bengals1181
11-16-2012, 12:31 PM
what I find curious, and it may just be coincidence, is that this weekend will now be the 5th game out of 17 regular season games he will have missed against their biggest rival, the Ravens. That's 5 of the total 14 games he will have missed.


Now this rib thing sounds very serious, that just seems like a lot of games to miss against your biggest rival. Someone like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Troy Polamalu would play that game with one arm if they had to.

It's probably coincidence, but an odd one.

Trumpetbdw
11-16-2012, 02:08 PM
what I find curious, and it may just be coincidence, is that this weekend will now be the 5th game out of 17 regular season games he will have missed against their biggest rival, the Ravens. That's 5 of the total 14 games he will have missed.

Now this rib thing sounds very serious, that just seems like a lot of games to miss against your biggest rival. Someone like Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Troy Polamalu would play that game with one arm if they had to.

It's probably coincidence, but an odd one.

Perhaps it's also just coincidence that Polamalu and Lewis will both also not be on the field this Sunday? And neither lost an arm, as far as I know.

Not sure what you're trying to get at

Bengals1181
11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
Perhaps it's also just coincidence that Polamalu and Lewis will both also not be on the field this Sunday? And neither lost an arm, as far as I know.

Not sure what you're trying to get at


just thought it was an interesting stat. Lewis obviously has a good reason for being out (as does Ben).

What is Polamalu's injury? I can't remember off the top of my head.

Trumpetbdw
11-16-2012, 02:39 PM
I've always found it kind of ironic that so many spend so much time complaining when athletes say nothing, then complain when they say too much.

Ben falls in the latter category, no doubt. It doesn't mean he makes up injuries. It doesn't necessarily mean he's trying to come off as the hero (although I do think there's some validity to that thought). It also doesn't mean that he tries to avoid playing against anyone, including a rival. It simply means he sometimes can't shut up when he probably should.

Yes Ben is frequently hurt. But we really need to address whether or not these injuries are real? That seems rather insulting to me. Rather equal to those that continue to question Jay Cutler, and seems to be a product more of dislike toward the player than anything. Tomlinson went through the same thing.

Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Troy Polamalu, etc have had some injury issues, yet none have had the validity of those injuries questioned. That must be because they "leave everything on the field," and respond to their injury in the perfectly perfect manner, which would seem to implicate that others who have their injuries questioned don't "leave everything on the field" and give it their all. That just seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Oh, and who honestly cares if Ben likes or doesn't like Todd Haley? That comment on offensive differences got way too much run because people were looking for anything to add to the friction, and because talk shows like feeding stories to the vocal 2% extremists as opposed to the silent 98%.

Trumpetbdw
11-16-2012, 02:40 PM
just thought it was an interesting stat. Lewis obviously has a good reason for being out (as does Ben).

What is Polamalu's injury? I can't remember off the top of my head.

Calf issue.

vancemeek
11-16-2012, 02:48 PM
For the record, I don't believe Ben has faked injuries, but I do believe he plays them up for the attention. This is exacerbated by the media: "Ben is one tough SOB for playing with that hangnail on his non-throwing hand." "Ben showing bravery by playing with a bruise on his eyebrow." "Ben, who bit his tongue Thursday, is showing true heart by being on the field." He's tough. We get it.

Curtis
11-16-2012, 09:06 PM
I've always found it kind of ironic that so many spend so much time complaining when athletes say nothing, then complain when they say too much.

Ben falls in the latter category, no doubt. It doesn't mean he makes up injuries. It doesn't necessarily mean he's trying to come off as the hero (although I do think there's some validity to that thought). It also doesn't mean that he tries to avoid playing against anyone, including a rival. It simply means he sometimes can't shut up when he probably should.

Yes Ben is frequently hurt. But we really need to address whether or not these injuries are real? That seems rather insulting to me. Rather equal to those that continue to question Jay Cutler, and seems to be a product more of dislike toward the player than anything. Tomlinson went through the same thing.

Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Troy Polamalu, etc have had some injury issues, yet none have had the validity of those injuries questioned. That must be because they "leave everything on the field," and respond to their injury in the perfectly perfect manner, which would seem to implicate that others who have their injuries questioned don't "leave everything on the field" and give it their all. That just seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Oh, and who honestly cares if Ben likes or doesn't like Todd Haley? That comment on offensive differences got way too much run because people were looking for anything to add to the friction, and because talk shows like feeding stories to the vocal 2% extremists as opposed to the silent 98%.

No one is complaining about anything. I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene? When there are millions of dollars tied to a franchise QB, how much rope do you give him and when do you reel it in?

Let's use Ben as an example. Ben exaggerates injuries, possibly imagines a few and goes out on the field. The media swoons, the Steelers fans cheer and gush while Ben laps it up. His toughness (real or exaggerated) gets so much hype, so much in fact that you used Tomlin's quote about Ben after he got hurt vs Cleveland last season. You even made a thread about it. Its talked about in every Steelers game and you can bet it will be shoved down our collective throats this Sunday night.

Since you and Mike were apparently split from the same petri dish, and you both don't care what he says as long as he stats this and percentages that....How do you feel now that he my be out 6 weeks? From your own lips, or fingertips in this format, you don't have faith in the backups. You say Ben is the offense. The team wasn't exactly breaking records and running up scores, and now they don't have Ben. I don't see this season getting better, I see it getting worse.

Obviously, Ben can't Superman this injury. When do you as fans say enough of the tough guy hero crap? Remember when he was a detriment to the team in SF? When they got Tebow'd? When do you make the fan voice heard that you want to protect the QB by sitting him as needed? Drafting a successor and a FA backup that fits the system?

Here's a thought and it's not far fetched as it may seem. What if Ben is out for the season? His kid is born and he does the whole mortality thing and decides to retire.

Curtis
11-16-2012, 09:11 PM
just thought it was an interesting stat. Lewis obviously has a good reason for being out (as does Ben).

What is Polamalu's injury? I can't remember off the top of my head.

Split ends and dry scalp. haha!

But seriously, Polamalu is Bob Sanders 2.0. I don't expect him, Harrison and Clark to be there next year. They will be cap casualties.

Trumpetbdw
11-16-2012, 11:23 PM
No one is complaining about anything. I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene? When there are millions of dollars tied to a franchise QB, how much rope do you give him and when do you reel it in?

Let's use Ben as an example. Ben exaggerates injuries, possibly imagines a few and goes out on the field. The media swoons, the Steelers fans cheer and gush while Ben laps it up. His toughness (real or exaggerated) gets so much hype, so much in fact that you used Tomlin's quote about Ben after he got hurt vs Cleveland last season. You even made a thread about it. Its talked about in every Steelers game and you can bet it will be shoved down our collective throats this Sunday night.

Since you and Mike were apparently split from the same petri dish, and you both don't care what he says as long as he stats this and percentages that....How do you feel now that he my be out 6 weeks? From your own lips, or fingertips in this format, you don't have faith in the backups. You say Ben is the offense. The team wasn't exactly breaking records and running up scores, and now they don't have Ben. I don't see this season getting better, I see it getting worse.

Obviously, Ben can't Superman this injury. When do you as fans say enough of the tough guy hero crap? Remember when he was a detriment to the team in SF? When they got Tebow'd? When do you make the fan voice heard that you want to protect the QB by sitting him as needed? Drafting a successor and a FA backup that fits the system?

Here's a thought and it's not far fetched as it may seem. What if Ben is out for the season? His kid is born and he does the whole mortality thing and decides to retire.

The Tomlin quote was used because I loved the way he put it. That quote was following him finishing the Cleveland game in which he got hurt. He shouldn't have played against SF. That's hindsight. But at the same time, that was also the game with the power outages, causing multiple stretches of inactivity, which didn't help him get it loose, so who knows how he's have played if it were a normal game.

Since you remember my posts so well, I'll remind you that I was the one picking them to lose to Denver. They weren't Tebowed because of his injury, though he didn't play his best game. Add to that, I thought he should have never played again in 2006 following his concussion in Atlanta, 4 months after the accident. I'm not sure how any of that is relevant, other than trying to say we as fans put team before player.

And I'm on record as saying Leftwich is a bad fit for the offense, and that Batch is likely a better fit. But I'll also trust the coaches decision making. I've made no predictions on that game, other than in the game picks section. But of course they're season is in trouble without him around. But that has nothing to do with any of my comments on his injury, and doesn't relate to this particular thread, as far as I was concerned, so I'm confused as to why it was brought up on your response to me.

I think he should sit out the rest of the year. I'm also not a doctor. If they clear him, fantastic. But from what I hear, it doesn't appear to be on his best interests to play. But I also don't get how that applies to my comments. Those comments were not necessarily reflective of my fandom of the team, just an observation. As I said, I've been equally put off regarding the comments about Cutlers injury in the NFC Championship.

As for if he retires, isn't that his choice? Again, what does that have to do with anything? Am I expected to call him selfish, making my stance hypocritical? Mike and I happen to agree on quite a bit. Doesn't make me speak for him, I speak for myself.

Im not from Pittsburgh, dont listen to the Steeler talk there either. Im from the area, 2 hours away, and decidedly steeler country, but was never able to engage in the Mark Maddens of the world. My stances are clear. Just because I'm a fan doesn't necessarily mean that my judgment is clouded. It's not my place to judge, but at the same time, I'll be happy to share opinions. Sometimes I speak as a fan, that's why we like the game in the first place. But I'm also very fair, regarding any team. So again, I'm not sure what pot you're trying to stir here.

mikesteelnation1
11-17-2012, 03:59 AM
No one is complaining about anything. I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene? When there are millions of dollars tied to a franchise QB, how much rope do you give him and when do you reel it in?

Let's use Ben as an example. Ben exaggerates injuries, possibly imagines a few and goes out on the field. The media swoons, the Steelers fans cheer and gush while Ben laps it up. His toughness (real or exaggerated) gets so much hype, so much in fact that you used Tomlin's quote about Ben after he got hurt vs Cleveland last season. You even made a thread about it. Its talked about in every Steelers game and you can bet it will be shoved down our collective throats this Sunday night.

Since you and Mike were apparently split from the same petri dish, and you both don't care what he says as long as he stats this and percentages that....How do you feel now that he my be out 6 weeks? From your own lips, or fingertips in this format, you don't have faith in the backups. You say Ben is the offense. The team wasn't exactly breaking records and running up scores, and now they don't have Ben. I don't see this season getting better, I see it getting worse.

Obviously, Ben can't Superman this injury.When do you as fans say enough of the tough guy hero crap? when he was a detriment to the team in SF? When they got Tebow'd? When do you make the fan voice heard that you want to protect the QB by sitting him as needed? Drafting a successor and a FA backup that fits the system?

Here's a thought and it's not far fetched as it may seem. What if Ben is out for the season? His kid is born and oes the whole mortality thing and
decides to retire.

You replied to trumpet, but said "you guys". I'll assume that to include me.

I said 5 hours before you started this thread (and before your last post in it)
From today's Pittsburgh trib

"Roethlisberger dislocated his top rib — the first rib — that protects the aorta, the largest artery in the body. Should the rib somehow puncture the aorta, it could be a life-threatening situation.

Roethlisberger also has a dislocation of the sternoclavicular joint that connects the sternum to the collarbone — essentially, the part that hooks the arm to the body. The dislocation occurs when ligaments tear under stress."

Both injuries sound pretty serious to me. Perhaps the front office is downplaying the shoulder injury. They sure as hell.are being mum with a realistic timetable for his return. I'm guessing it's going to be 4 weeks minimum, and personally I'd rather he wait till he he's actually ready to return. He has a bad habit of forcing his way back too soon, and tomlin needs to put his foot down and keep him out till he is healthy enough to be effective.

Both guys did a horrible job in judging when Ben should have returned last year from the ankle injury.

Perhaps you've let your views be colored by the blather that gets aired on local radio. After that post, both trumpet and myself opined the rest of the season didn't look good sans Ben.. I certainly didn't claim we would win it all, nor did trumpet.

Do I think we should invest a 3rd round pick in a developmental qb? Totally.

Do I think anything else mentioned is worth debating here, seeing as how it's been addressed publicly prior to this thread? No way. We need a better back up. Is a guy who misses that few games to injury getting cut? Barely a game a year? With his production? No way. That debate is better left to mark Madden and the callers to his show. It's exactly where I thought this convo was going from jump.. EXACTLY why i didn't see how it added value.

mikesteelnation1
11-17-2012, 05:21 AM
Thanks Mike. You're doing exactly what you said for me to not do, except you wrote an entire diatribe off-topic. Just pointing out that you are defensive anytime anybody says anything about the Steelers, in all threads, for example, when I selected Tim Brown over Bettis in the HOF brackets. It was relevant to the topic. As for your post, you're right. I just made up the fact that I took an entire 30 seconds to read your post. {}. I'll stop, so I don't kill the thread. {}

Am I defensive when I disagree? Sure I am. Same as you are. I didn't do anything I suggested you shouldn't. Now you're attempting spin when you've been called out. You played morality police with no added opinion.. I gave my opinion, and told you to not be the hall monitor. Not the same at all. Not even close. Let folks argue. Like I said before you ever said a word in this thread. There was no need for you to say anything about verbage. Especially when you took it out of context with nothing to say other than that.

I'd suggest reading things in context as they are written, and not carrying a grudge when someone disagrees with you. I didn't even remember that disagreement in the hof thread.

vancemeek
11-17-2012, 09:24 AM
No grudges. I didn't care then. I don't care now. Just pointing it out. Nobody is playing morality police. Don't be melodramatic. Also, I read fine. Don't insult my intelligence.

Curtis
11-17-2012, 11:34 AM
/sigh
/facepalm
/end thread

Curtis
11-19-2012, 01:13 PM
Leftwich was obviously injured. It affected his performance. He got worse with every drive. He became a detriment to the team. Tomlin did nothing. Steelers lost.
While there were other things that contributed to the loss, Leftwich's rib injury is the perfect example of the point of this thread.

Now leftwich is going to be out. And I could care less. In fact, I am enjoying this. I started this thread to discuss how coaches can avoid putting players and their team in this situation. Instead...the thread didn't turn out that way I planned.

Enjoy the crow, Steelers fans and most of all...enjoy the rest of your season.

Trumpetbdw
11-19-2012, 02:04 PM
From the OP...

Will Big Ben's 'injuries' end up hurting him?

So are the injuries real or are they made up?

Why would Ben want to put every ache and pain out there to the public, the other teams and the Steelers? I mean think about it. He is more willing to volunteer specifics about his injuries than any player I have ever seen.

Is he a drama queen that embellishes injuries publicly so he can be a hero on the field?
Why specifically point out every flaw you have to your upcoming opponent? Fake injury, fight through fake pain, win game and be a hero.

Embellished or not, the Steelers ownership has made changes to the staff and the offense to protect their "injury prone" QB.

Now...

I started this thread to discuss how coaches can avoid putting players and their team in this situation.

{I can't believe we all missed your original point. It was so clear. Our bad}

Seemed to me like your original point was to manufacture an argument. Then, you tried to twist my words and put words into my mouth, and mike's mouth to stir up the argument. Even after finally deciding to "/end thread", it looks like you are now trying to manufacture another one.

/shaking my head
/not going to work
/some people never learn

Curtis
11-19-2012, 02:59 PM
I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer for FP. I'm just a guy trying to contribute discussions. If I were an awesome article writer as you, maybe I could convey ideas better. But I'm not. I can orally convey my thoughts but not so well in written format.
When the thread was leaning to an argument from Steelers fans, I made an attempt to steer away from that by trying to clarify what I intended the thread to be in a response to you.

I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene?

So you can think whatever you want, you do anyway. And I don't give a damn what you think. Go ahead and say I want to start an argument. I'm just pointing out that I am sick of the reaction of Steelers fans on this site. If I, or anyone wants to talk about the Steelers, no matter if it's cheers or jeers, we should be allowed to do so without Steelers fans reacting badly to anything negative. You act like people are talking about your mother.

So to avoid another Wax situation, I offer you to talk to me man to man in PM. If not, put me on ignore and move on. That way you won't have to see anything I say about the Steelers, favorably or not.

Trumpetbdw
11-19-2012, 04:12 PM
I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer for FP. I'm just a guy trying to contribute discussions. If I were an awesome article writer as you, maybe I could convey ideas better. But I'm not. I can orally convey my thoughts but not so well in written format.
When the thread was leaning to an argument from Steelers fans, I made an attempt to steer away from that by trying to clarify what I intended the thread to be in a response to you.


So you can think whatever you want, you do anyway. And I don't give a damn what you think. Go ahead and say I want to start an argument. I'm just pointing out that I am sick of the reaction of Steelers fans on this site. If I, or anyone wants to talk about the Steelers, no matter if it's cheers or jeers, we should be allowed to do so without Steelers fans reacting badly to anything negative. You act like people are talking about your mother.

So to avoid another Wax situation, I offer you to talk to me man to man in PM. If not, put me on ignore and move on. That way you won't have to see anything I say about the Steelers, favorably or not.

Just to clarify, this was never personal. I gave my initial opinion based on the OP. I initially intended to ignore, but the entire first page of comments were all centered around that thought, so I first responded to Bengals, then responded in a more big picture approach, both to the OP, and to the general consensus that has been portrayed by many. You responded with the quote above, which was the first time you mentioned anything about coaches intervening. And even within that entire quote, you went back to the "drama queen" and whether or not the injuries were real or not.

So if you wanted to discuss how the coaches should have handled Ben, then what I'm saying is, that probably should have been made more clear from the start. Point blank, I think that's a fair point to discuss. But based on everything actually written in the OP, that didn't seem to be the point. The point seemed to be another intentionally inflammatory article on Ben as an embellisher with selfish motivations, something I don't believe to be true.

Instead, it somehow morphed into being about me (and mike) responding in the manner that I/we did.

You can have whatever opinions on the Steelers that you wish. I get that they are a polarizing team, and that many hate them. I have no problem with that, and thoroughly enjoy the back and forth. But to clearly state one thing, then switch to something else midstream and say that was your intent all along comes off as a bit disingenuous.

I have no need to ignore anyone, and am happy to speak with anyone man to man (or woman), whether in PM, or here. I have nothing to hide. Like I said, there's nothing personal with anyone. But that doesn't mean I don't, and shouldn't, have disagreements, whether in content or approach.