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Pruitt
08-11-2013, 08:59 PM
The complaints about Bernie Kosar ripping apart the Rams receivers in a local telecast of a pre-season game are hilarious.

I've watched the highlights, and I think that Coach Fisher needs some midol.

KabaModernFan
08-11-2013, 09:13 PM
I was listening to the radio the other day and they were having fun with the sound bite of Jim Donovan and Bernie Kosar talking about how Kellen Clemens once signed an autograph for the Pope. More specifically, they greatly enjoyed the honesty of Kosar directly saying that Kellen Clemens couldn't play football.

And of course, Clemens promptly threw an interception merely seconds afterwards.

wxwax
08-11-2013, 10:33 PM
Just sticking up for his guys. Did Kosar really say the kid was an embarrassment to his mom? That's a bit over the top, no?

KabaModernFan
08-11-2013, 10:56 PM
Just sticking up for his guys. Did Kosar really say the kid was an embarrassment to his mom? That's a bit over the top, no?

That's not exactly what he said, but some of the comments were probably unnecessary. I'm all for honesty in the broadcast booth, but some of his remarks seemed to be him going out of his way to be disparaging. It doesn't help that I don't recall hearing him say anything in the same vein about Browns players either.

mkocs6
08-12-2013, 01:41 AM
In general, I'm with Pruitt. These players are not little leaguers and the broadcast is intended for the Cleveland market. I don't see why objectivity (if that's what we're concerned about) in an exhibition game is particularly critical. Anyway, nice misdirection by Fisher: my first team looked fairly awful against the Browns' starters, so, uh...let's talk about how mean Bernie was.

I'm going over the game right now, making notes on things--including the commentary. So far, in terms of Kosar berating the Browns, so far he has described a Jordan Cameron drop as 'horrible,' but yes, he's gone more consistently after the Rams. He's knocked the their receivers so far, but given a lot of credit to Bradford. In his defense, St. Louis has played a pretty sloppy game so far. He's called St. Louis out for play design a little--or, really, said a screen would never be drawn up this way in a regular season game--and noted that the Rams had really bad coverage on Travis Benjamin's ninety-yard punt return. (Which, um, they did.)

Really, though--who cares? He was probably harshest on Clemens (which happens much later in the game), and I haven't gotten there yet--I have seen the ridiculous footage where Jim Donovan claims Clemens signed the pope's mitre, and I'm not sure how that's even possible (seriously, that's the kind of thing where you need photographic evidence, or it never happened)--but, uh... doesn't Jeff Fisher have bigger things to worry about than what Bernie Kosar says?

wxwax
08-12-2013, 01:57 AM
Yeah, I'm sure he does. Still, I have no problem with a coach sticking up for his players. It's good for the team, which is the only thing he cares about.

FWIW, it's not about being objective. It's about using a one-way bully pulpit to cheap shot someone who can't answer back. Lack of character.

How to stick up for your player, version epic.


http://youtu.be/aoMmbUmKN0E

Rich Gapinski
08-12-2013, 09:35 AM
Here is what Kosar actually said and description of what was going on around each comment.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2013/8/11/4611368/browns-bernie-kosar-the-real-representation-of-his-commentary-against

Jeff Fisher is overreacting.

ScottDCP
08-12-2013, 09:54 AM
Jeff Fisher is taking a page from the Phil Jackson Bullying Playbook. Frell him. Big goateed baby.

wxwax
08-12-2013, 02:48 PM
Disagree. the Browns have taken the extraordinary step of rebuking Kosar and apologizing to the Rams. Quite right.

Your job, as a television commentator, is to observe and report. Criticize performance all you want.

Never, ever ridicule. You have way too much power with that little microphone dangling before your flapping lips.

Respect the game. Respect the people who are trying to earn a living the best they can, in a very public and difficult arena.

Be honorable. Do not ridicule, minimize or otherwise degrade hard working folks.

Simple, really.

mkocs6
08-12-2013, 03:57 PM
This is all a little sanctimonious for me. Whatever. Bernie said what he thought, something I think we all wish more announcers would actually do. Did you read through the above post that Rich provided? I've watched the game and listened to the commentary and found very little worth a reprimand. I would seriously doubt that Jeff Fisher and Peter King have, and if they can't take a joke, then the hell with them.

Re: Gundy, I thought it was common knowledge that--in addition to Gundy making a fool out of himself--the player for whom he did this didn't particularly appreciate it (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3341578). Of course, Oklahoma State just hired that player for some non-coaching, football function (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8961031/former-oklahoma-state-cowboys-qb-mike-gundy-backed-rant-joins-staff), so it's obviously a fairly complicated story.

wxwax
08-12-2013, 04:53 PM
Hard to predict whether an outburst like Gundy's will make you a hero or a Mora. But my sense is that Gundy is celebrated for sticking up for his guy.

Yes, I read through the post Rich linked, which was written by a Browns apologist. I think Kosar went too far. Show some respect for the game and the people trying to make a living at it. He didn't. Ridiculing people on air is simply uncalled for, and everyone who matters (Kosar's employers, the Rams) agrees on that.

mkocs6
08-12-2013, 05:15 PM
Banner issued a statement because he feared a public relations fiasco. That sort of thing can happen when Sports Illustrated starts talking. Speaking of which...

From The Plain Dealer's Terry Pluto, in an article which suggests Kosar sounded disinterested for much of the game (I didn't get that exactly, but shrug) and ought to have spent more time discussing the Browns than the Rams (probably true, regardless of your opinion of his opinions on St. Louis receivers, who are bad) (http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/08/terry_plutos_cleveland_browns_3.html#incart_flyout _sports), makes an interesting connection:


To quote his own tweet, the guy "waay over the top there" in his criticism of Kosar was Sports Illustrated's Peter King.

He also tweeted: "My question for Kosar after comments in the Cle-StL preseason game: Were you drinking?"

For the record, Kosar was not drinking. I talked to several people who were with him that night. Kosar has been very candid about his post-concussion issues from his playing days.

Listen to the broadcast. His comments were clear. It's a cheap shot to suggest he was drinking. King should know better than that, even if the tweet was intended as a joke.

Furthermore, King shares the same agent as Rams coach Jeff Fisher, who criticized Kosar in a press conference. That puts King in the position of sounding biased, even if he believes that's not the case.

King has yet to apologize for the "drinking" comment.

In the end, the Browns issued an apology, Kosar called Fisher and apologized and that should be the end of it.

Let's leave the whole drinking/concussion thing aside. Peter King's agent is Marvin Demoff, who is also Jeff Fisher's agent. The Rams' COO is Kevin Demoff, who handles all St. Louis's business, marketing, and public relations, and so on, according to his bio (http://rams.imgrelay.com/html/167.html). And, oh yeah, he's Marvin Demoff's son. Now it sounds like Peter King just happened to be visiting Rams' training camp, two days after the game, when Jeff Fisher expressed his displeasure during a press conference. And Peter King then decided to become the media voice-of-outrage at Kosar's conduct on this incident.

Is a potential conflict of interest for King as serious as Kosar's apparent meanness? Oh, and he hung out in the Rams' war room (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/-nfl-draft/news/20130429/nfl-draft-peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback/?sct=hp_wr_a2&eref=sihp) during this year's draft? It doesn't sound like they've ever coordinated anything together before, or could use a reporter from SI to make public relations hay. Call it a conspiracy theory if you want, but it makes at least as much sense as saying Bernie Kosar doesn't respect the game.

Andy Freeland
08-12-2013, 06:14 PM
Announcers for preseason NFL games are more like MLB radio announcers. They are homers and local personalities rather than professional, objective announcers. And that's fine, I think there's room for that particularly in the preseason. I've heard Kosar call a couple of games and he's just terrible, but as a home town hero in a city that doesn't have many, it works. I've read some of the comments and they would be unprofessional for a network crew, but not over the top terrible for a local preseason crew. Certainly no worse than Fisher's comments about Kosar's drinking. Are the Rams receivers terrible? Yes, and a network analyst would have said they were too, he just would have phrased it differently.

Rich Gapinski
08-12-2013, 07:04 PM
Announcers for preseason NFL games are more like MLB radio announcers. They are homers and local personalities rather than professional, objective announcers. And that's fine, I think there's room for that particularly in the preseason. I've heard Kosar call a couple of games and he's just terrible, but as a home town hero in a city that doesn't have many, it works. I've read some of the comments and they would be unprofessional for a network crew, but not over the top terrible for a local preseason crew. Certainly no worse than Fisher's comments about Kosar's drinking. Are the Rams receivers terrible? Yes, and a network analyst would have said they were too, he just would have phrased it differently.

Thanks for the perspective.

msclemons
08-13-2013, 08:25 PM
From everything I've read Kosar's sin was saying the Rams' receivers are horrible and that Kellen Clemens can't play quarterback.

Ummm... yeah?

wxwax
08-13-2013, 09:02 PM
Sure, but as ever in life, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. "His game isn't good enough" versus "He's an embarrassment to his mom."

Andy Freeland
08-13-2013, 09:46 PM
From everything I've read Kosar's sin was saying the Rams' receivers are horrible and that Kellen Clemens can't play quarterback.


I'm checking the transcript to see if he said that the sky is blue or water is wet.

Pruitt
08-13-2013, 10:47 PM
Peter King should be ashamed - or at least embarrassed.

you know, I was reading a review in the New York Times earlier tonight and the author mentioned that he and the writer of the book that he was reviewing both had books put out by the same publisher. Because that's what you're supposed to do...

For King to not mention that he has the same agent as Fisher in this case is ridiculous.

tubbs1518
08-13-2013, 11:05 PM
This is all a little sanctimonious for me. Whatever. Bernie said what he thought, something I think we all wish more announcers would actually do. Did you read through the above post that Rich provided? I've watched the game and listened to the commentary and found very little worth a reprimand. I would seriously doubt that Jeff Fisher and Peter King have, and if they can't take a joke, then the hell with them.

Re: Gundy, I thought it was common knowledge that--in addition to Gundy making a fool out of himself--the player for whom he did this didn't particularly appreciate it (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3341578). Of course, Oklahoma State just hired that player for some non-coaching, football function (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8961031/former-oklahoma-state-cowboys-qb-mike-gundy-backed-rant-joins-staff), so it's obviously a fairly complicated story.

I was just getting ready to post that about the kid and Gundy. The kid didn't appreciate what Gundy did at all and said it was all very fake to him. People praise Gundy for "standing up for his kid" but very few actually know the whole story. The kid said Gundy essentially ruined his life with that.

msclemons
11-02-2013, 01:56 PM
Is it safe to say that the Rams' performance on Thursday validated Kosar's opinion?

Pruitt
11-03-2013, 08:11 AM
Is it safe to say that the Rams' performance on Thursday validated Kosar's opinion?

Yes, yes it did.