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Amy
11-25-2013, 01:26 AM
This game was so crazy that I can't even come up with a snazzy title.

Before the game even starts, it's looking grim with Spikes, Talib, Denard, and Arrington all questionable. All 4 end up active, but they're gimpy. Remember last week I said I didn't want Talib to play against Carolina so his hip would have one more week to heal. Yeah, I was right. On the plus side, it's the coldest regular season game in Foxboro in 20 years, and Peyton doesn't play as well in the cold.

Obviously, Al and CC are on the call. Gene Stentore is the ref.

Denver P1: Start at the 20. 4 and out. After a 12 yard Moreno run, the Broncos go 3 and out.

Pats P1: Start at the 24. 8 play drive. It was going well, then Ridley fumbles on the 8th play of the drive. Miller recovers and takes it 60 yards to the house. 7-0 Denver.

Pats P2: Start at the 28. Two play drive. After an incomplete pass, Brady is strip sacked by Miller. Denver ball.

Broncos P2: Start at the Pats 10. Two Moreno runs and a Denver TD. 14-0 Denver.

Pats P3: Start at the 24. Three plays. Blount fumbles. Denver ball.

Denver P3: Start at the Pats 44. 9 play drive. 8 runs and a sack by Chandler Jones. Denver gets a FG. 17-0 Denver.

Pats P4: Start at the 29. 6 plays. Brady being sacked by Vickerson was the biggest play.

Denver P4: Start at the 20. 7 plays. 4 runs, 3 passes, then a punt. Moreno's 17 yard run was the big play of the drive.

Pats P5: Start at the 20 after Edelman fumbles the punt twice. He muffed it, recovered the muff, fumbled again, but we fell on it. The drive starts off with a 33 yard Bolden run. On the next play, Brady fumbles, picks it up and hits Bolden for 11. Bolden loses 3 on the next play, then Vereen drops a pass. Brady finds Danny for 8, which brought up 4th and 5. Brady misses Amendola, and Denver gets the ball.

Denver P5: Start at the 30. *sigh*. We start off good. They get 11 yards on 3 plays. But then, Manning is called for grounding and Thomas has a drop. On 3rd and 20, we give up a 32 yard screen to Ball. Three runs pick up 25, then after a miss to Green, Manning finds Tamme for a 10 yard TD. 24-0 Denver.

Pats P6: Start at the 20. 5 plays. We get a first down on an iffy personal foul on Williams. We also give up a sack to Miller.

Denver P6: Start at the 30. 5 plays then a punt.

Pats P7: Start at the 8. 7 plays. We don't do much. However, Holliday fumbled the punt and we recover it with 5 seconds. We get off a hail mary and don't get anything, but DRC is hurt.

Halftime. We have six fumbles in the first half. Denver recovered three and got 17 points off of them.

Pats P8: Start at the 20. The offense comes alive! Brady finds KT for 9, and Bolden picks up the first with a 4 yard run. Back to backs to KT get 16, but KT gets shaken up on the second. We find Gronk for 34, Vereen for 8, then back to backs to Julian of 5 each end up with a Pats TD. 24-7 Denver.

Denver P7: Start at the 19. After 5 runs for 28 yards, the Broncos decide to throw. After a screen pass, Ball fumbles, and the Pats recover!

Pats P9: Start at the Broncos 32. We take advantage! Vereen gets 11, then Brady goes to KT in the endzone, but the pass is knocked away. Bolden picks up 7, and on 3rd and 3, Brady and Gronk get 13 to the 1. Vereen gets stopped, then Bolden punches it in. 24-14 Denver.

Denver P8: Start at the 15. 6 plays. 3 Moreno runs for a total of 5 yards, 2 Welker catches for 22, and a 3rd and 5 Manning fumble. Denver recovers, but they punt.

Pats P10: Start at the 35. We're alive! Brady to KT for 14, then Julian for 43. That gave us first and goal at the 8. Brady throws it away on 1st down, Vereen runs for 2 on second, and Brady finds Gronk for the 6 yard TD on 3rd! 24-21 Denver.

Denver P9: Start at the 14. 3 plays! 2 runs, and then Manning is picked off by Logan Ryan!

Pats P11: Start at the Denver 30. Three plays! 1 yard for Bolden, Brady to Gronk for 15, Brady to Julian for 14 and a TD! 28-24 Pats!

Denver P10: Start at the 20. Three and out!

Pats P12: Start at the Broncos 47! We take our time. Vereen gets 6, then Brady finds Gronk for 7. We're nearly picked on the next pass, but passes to Danny and Vereen get the first. Mulligan holds on that first down, but the first and 20 becomes first and 10 when Webster is called for hands to the face on Danny. Bolden gets 2, then we find KT for 12. A 1 yard Bolden run and incomplete passes to Gronk and Danny makes us settle for the 30 yard FG and a 31-24 lead with 7:37 to play.

Denver P11: Start at the 20. Denver puts a long drive together. They almost have a nightmare on the first play when Talib picks Manning. However, Talib was called for holding, so the pick the negated. Moreno runs for 5, and Manning finds Welker for 5 more. Moreno runs for 18, then Manning finds Thomas for 12. Welker drops a pass, and on the next play Clark is called for holding. On 2nd and 20, Manning finds Thomas for 15, then Tammer for 11. Moreno runs for 3, and Manning misses Driesen. On 3rd and 7, he misses Tamme, but Ninkovitch is called for PI. It's a good call, but much less then what wasn't called in Carolina. On the next play, Thomas catches the 11 yard TD. 31-31. 3:06 to play.

Pats P13: Start at the 20. Three and out. Why are we throwing underneath?

Denver P12: Start at the 33. 5 plays then a punt. We get one more chance in regulation.

Pats P14: Start at the 11. :28 seconds left. Two plays and we go to OT. We were too passive there.

Overtime: We win the toss and kick. We took the wind. Interesting.

Denver P13: Start at the 20. 6 plays! They start off with 2 Moreno runs for 27. Manning misses Anderson under pressure, then Anderson runs for 6. Manning finds Tammer for 3 on 3rd and 4, but OPI is called on Decker. On the new 3rd and 14, Talib defends the pass to Thomas and they punt.

Pats P15: Start at the 18. 5 plays. Bolden gets 1, Brady hits Gronk for 11. Bolden runs for 6. Brady goes to KT and there should have been a PI flag. None was thrown, and we miss Edelman on 3rd and 4.

Denver P14: Start at the 13. Moreno has 2 runs for 9 yards, then Manning finds Thomas for 3. Moreno rips off an 18 yard run, and goes out hurt. Anderson runs for six, and on the next play fumbles and falls on it. Manning finds Tamme for 13 on 3rd and four. Over the next two plays, Moreno runs twice for a net of two. On 3rd and 8, Welker has his third drop. We get another possession.

Pats P16: Start at the 20. Four and out. Broncos flub the punt! Pats ball!

Pats P17: Start at the Denver 18.
1st and 10: Brady, -1, centers the ball
2nd and 11: Brady, 2
3rd and 9: 31 yard FG Good!!!!!! 34-31 PATS!!!!

Third down:

Denver: 9 for 19
Pats: 6 for 14

Fourth down:

Pats: 0 for 1

wxwax
11-25-2013, 02:19 AM
A game of mistakes, decided by a mistake. Destined to be a tie, until one last error finished it off.

mikesteelnation1
11-25-2013, 02:32 AM
Sorry but I'll say it again. Pm is NOT good in the cold, outside, in BIG games. This was a big game, it might determine homefield in the playoffs. That would be a huge advantage for the pats, as tonight showed.

The pats fumbled a bazillion balls in the first half, and were down 24-0. Tom Brady was a no show for the first half. That said, the difference between Brady and pm is their ability to overcome elements and come up big in BIG games. Tommy boy certainly came up big in the second half, while pm played like garbage. New England doesn't have a lock down defense, far from it actually as currently constituted.

This game shows exactly who pm is, who he's always been. He shrinks in BIG games and sucks outside in the cold elements. He had a back that went for OVER 200 yards, and a D that forced tons of turnovers, yet he went for barely over a 50% comp %. The alleys were open for him. The box OBVIOUSLY wasn't stacked, Moreno ran rampant. Belichick knows what I believe to be true, pm sucks in BIG games and he's terrible in the elements when it's cold.

Darth hoodie dared pm to beat his kryptonite, he couldn't. Pm couldn't, he never does. Darth hoodie sold out vs the run, he put the game in mannings hands.

We all know who won, and why.

Should we continue to debate how pm isn't affected by big games and weather? I'd suggest we shouldn't... Like most of pm's teams, they gave enough and he didn't. His 7 first round punch outs SCREAM that. Pretty sure the qbs with multiple rings don't have those issues.

Sorry for my vitriol, but I'm SOOOOO sick of the pm apologists. He's not a victim of his run game and defense. He just SUCKS when the games matter most and weather plays a part and it doesn't involve the garbage AFC south he played against. If you think it isn't garbage, please refer to how pm's colts did vs the playoff field. He's NOT good in BIG games, and he's NOT good outside in the cold. Argue as you like...his track record shows different.

Pm just lost a game he was winning by 4 scores at the half, and his game play was terrible. He never turned it up. He couldn't. It's not in his character. Sorry, but I'll take my guy who has double the rings and double the playoff win %. Ben never gave away 24 points EVER because it was COLD.

SORRY, but manning was terrible, like his history shows he is. He's a statistical compiler, but he's not a big game qb. Never has been, never will be. Especially when its cold.. just saying..

mikesteelnation1
11-25-2013, 03:18 AM
Man this subject makes me SOOOOO mad.. my team would never acquiesce a 4 score lead to lose with Ben at the helm. That's never happened. It never will. Ben is a gamer. He creates something from nothing, his play wouldn't allow it. I guess that's why when a guy who's regarded higher for reasons he shouldn't it supremely pisses me off.

Would ANY of the multiple ring guys be up by 4 scores to LOSE? ESPECIALLY on a team with the record of the donkeys?? Eli might this year, but everyone would still bet on PM doing it first, which he did.

Pm would be 2-9 behind our line.. just saying..

KabaModernFan
11-25-2013, 04:46 AM
Let's play a little game of blind résumé, shall we?

Quarterback A: 5,368-8,202 (65.4%) 63,059 yds (7.7 YPA) 470 TDs 215 INTs (2.2 TD:INT) 96.8 Passer Rating

Quarterback B: 315-482 (65.4%) 3,857 yds (8.0 YPA) 26 TDs 14 INTs (1.9 TD:INT) 95.8 Passer Rating

Not a whole lot of difference, is there? Quarterback B obviously has a much smaller body of work, but there's a good reason for that. Either way, there isn't really much of a discernible difference at all between these two passers.

That's because Quarterback A is Peyton Manning over the entirety of his career, Quarterback B is Peyton Manning in games played at temperatures under 40° Fahrenheit, and the hypothesis that Peyton Manning is awful in cold weather is ludicrous.

Oh and another fun little fact! One of the only other times in NFL history when a team gave up a lead of at least 24 points at halftime occurred in 1988 when the Denver Broncos (ironically enough) blew a 24-0 lead over the Los Angeles Raiders. The Broncos quarterback for that contest? John Elway. I guess he just wasn't very good either.

Pruitt
11-25-2013, 07:54 AM
Yep. manning sucks.

packa7x
11-25-2013, 08:25 AM
Let's play a little game of blind résumé, shall we?

Quarterback A: 5,368-8,202 (65.4%) 63,059 yds (7.7 YPA) 470 TDs 215 INTs (2.2 TD:INT) 96.8 Passer Rating

Quarterback B: 315-482 (65.4%) 3,857 yds (8.0 YPA) 26 TDs 14 INTs (1.9 TD:INT) 95.8 Passer Rating

Not a whole lot of difference, is there? Quarterback B obviously has a much smaller body of work, but there's a good reason for that. Either way, there isn't really much of a discernible difference at all between these two passers.

That's because Quarterback A is Peyton Manning over the entirety of his career, Quarterback B is Peyton Manning in games played at temperatures under 40° Fahrenheit, and the hypothesis that Peyton Manning is awful in cold weather is ludicrous.

Oh and another fun little fact! One of the only other times in NFL history when a team gave up a lead of at least 24 points at halftime occurred in 1988 when the Denver Broncos (ironically enough) blew a 24-0 lead over the Los Angeles Raiders. The Broncos quarterback for that contest? John Elway. I guess he just wasn't very good either.

Bravo. This is another case of setting an arbitrary parameter. People throw around the number 32 degrees or below because that's freezing, but 8 more degrees still isn't exactly warm and it sure isn't a balmy 65 in a dome. People pull this with wins as well. "So and so" can't win games that are decided by 4 points or less. But if you make it 7 or less, he's got a winning record.

tubbs1518
11-25-2013, 08:34 AM
It's not so much the cold weather for me as much as it big games. PM just can't win them.

John Elway is overrated too.

Patrick Sullivan
11-25-2013, 08:54 AM
This was a helluva game. It was probably a preview of the AFC title game and the Brawlin' Bradys just put themselves in the driver's seat to be hosting the Fightin' Peytons in January.

Patrick Sullivan
11-25-2013, 08:56 AM
Yep. manning sucks.

horrible.

simply horrible.

screech away!!!

packa7x
11-25-2013, 09:31 AM
It's not so much the cold weather for me as much as it big games. PM just can't win them.

John Elway is overrated too.

He has a ring, no? I think that invalidates a lot.

tubbs1518
11-25-2013, 09:43 AM
Let's see. 3TDs and 7 INTs that post season. Yep Manning really stepped up. He really won that for them.

Pruitt
11-25-2013, 10:44 AM
Maybe my sarcasm didn't come through. But if Manning and Elway are both overrated, than just who is better?

Brady? Maybe.

Montana? Perhaps.

who else then?

Patrick Sullivan
11-25-2013, 10:50 AM
Maybe my sarcasm didn't come through. But if Manning and Elway are both overrated, than just who is better?

Brady? Maybe.

Montana? Perhaps.

who else then?

Oh. Your sarcasm came through. I was being sarcastic myself.

If I had to pick one QB in history to quarterback my team to one win, I would take Joe Montana. Elway would be on my wish list. So would Brady.

packa7x
11-25-2013, 11:11 AM
Oh. Your sarcasm came through. I was being sarcastic myself.

If I had to pick one QB in history to quarterback my team to one win, I would take Joe Montana. Elway would be on my wish list. So would Brady.

I'm liking a tiered system more and more. I think it's impossible to pick just one guy, but there's a list of guys I'd take over any other group:

Brady, Manning, Montana, Unitas, Marino, Favre, and Young are the guys I've seen in my lifetime that I'd pick to lead my team depending on the team I have. Obviously, Montana and Marino were very different players, but both worked for their teams/circumstances and were perfect fits, especially Montana.

packa7x
11-25-2013, 11:13 AM
Let's see. 3TDs and 7 INTs that post season. Yep Manning really stepped up. He really won that for them.

{But he won so he MUST be good.}

You can't have it both ways. Is he a stat compiler who can't win in the postseason, or is he a SB champ who did enough to win despite playing poorly? Any other QB gets a pass because, well, they won. I get this a lot from Giants fans. "SO WHAT IF ELI THREW 3 INTS, WE WON!"

Andy Freeland
11-25-2013, 01:36 PM
A (probably futile) attempt to get this thread back on track.

what a great game. Almost worth the string of blowouts we've seen just to get this game.
1. The Broncos kicked the Patriots butts.
2. The Patriots kicked the Broncos butts.
3. The weather kicked Michelle Tafoya's butt.

On Saturday, Cris specifically asked Del Rio about taking the wind instead of the ball in OT. He said that you have to do what's best for the team and not care about what people are going to say, which of course is Belichick's forte. I don't agree with the decision and don't think it dramatically affected the outcome. At one point 31 of 38 points had been scored headed into the wind. The wind really affected punts and kick offs more than anything else. But agree with it or not, you have to give Belichick credit for making the call, it took guts. But of course he's never been a guy that cares about second guessers.

theres a great 'off the air' story that we didn't get to. Obviously my time is really limited this week but hopefully I'll get around to writing 'the legend of Bill Rifkin' in the next day or so.

hobbes27
11-25-2013, 02:27 PM
Yep. manning sucks.

Bring back Tebow!

hobbes27
11-25-2013, 02:29 PM
It's not so much the cold weather for me as much as it big games. PM just can't win them.

John Elway is overrated too.

I guess that Superbowl win over the Bears wasn't a big game won by Manning.

Rich Gapinski
11-25-2013, 02:52 PM
I guess that Superbowl win over the Bears wasn't a big game won by Manning.

The one where he has to beat the Bears in an abnormally cold Miami rain? No, doesn't count.

He does get a huge minus for only needing to beat Rex Grossman, though. Then again, Brady faced Jake Delhomme in one of his.

I'm confused, is the argument that Peyton Manning isn't that great or that he doesn't have the resume Brady has because of the lack of success in the playoffs/cold and windy weather/having a perfect butt-chin?

I do have to admit that even though I know my team would be well prepared with PM, I would pick Brady, Unitas, Baugh or Montana before I would pick Manning if I had to do the Us vs. The Aliens Bob Ryan thing.

packa7x
11-25-2013, 03:56 PM
I think it's that he's really good up until "it counts"

tubbs1518
11-25-2013, 04:14 PM
Brady, Montana, Unitas, Graham are all easily over Manning and Elway. I'd probably put Young there too. Maybe Starr, Baugh. Probably some others I'm forgetting.

Nancy
11-25-2013, 04:18 PM
It was a great game, right up until the last turnover. I don't think either team has a whole lot to brag about here....nobody could hold on to the football even with their fancy schmancy gloves and Brady didn't look any better than Manning throwing the ball until the remaining Broncos defensive backfield got injured. Then he looked like, well, Tom Brady. Damn him. I continue to believe the Brady or Manning argument is kind of silly. I'm a Manning person, but then I'm a Colts fan and I make no apologies for my bias nor do I try to hide it; however, I think Brady is having his most impressive season--it's the same argument I've made for Manning in the past. Manning won and elevated a team that had some significant missing pieces over the years. Brady has generally had the benefit of a more complete team, but this season I swear to goodness the Pats are winning based on the sheer greatness of Brady (and Gronk).

Wordsworth
11-25-2013, 04:19 PM
I put Elway higher than the average person because of the teams he took to those Superbowls prior to his two wins. Some of those old Broncos teams were completely void of playmakers and still they managed to win the AFC. That says a lot about Elway.

Rich Gapinski
11-25-2013, 04:35 PM
I put Elway higher than the average person because of the teams he took to those Superbowls prior to his two wins. Some of those old Broncos teams were completely void of playmakers and still they managed to win the AFC. That says a lot about Elway.

I'll let you know that Vance Johnson's family is busy writing up an angry letter.

wxwax
11-25-2013, 04:37 PM
Such a dumb argument. This game was going to be a tie until a dumb special teams error.

Somehow that affirms Brady's superiority? Good grief.

tubbs1518
11-25-2013, 04:39 PM
Such a dumb argument. This game was going to be a tie until a dumb special teams error.

Somehow that affirms Brady's superiority? Good grief.

No Brady's great game and Mannings subpar game take care of that.

wxwax
11-25-2013, 04:47 PM
No Brady's great game and Mannings subpar game take care of that.

Nonsense.

hobbes27
11-25-2013, 05:04 PM
I put Elway higher than the average person because of the teams he took to those Superbowls prior to his two wins. Some of those old Broncos teams were completely void of playmakers and still they managed to win the AFC. That says a lot about Elway.

I guess you are forgetting about Terrell Davis. It helps to have a running game to win a superbowl.

I'm not saying Elway was a chump. But when you have the best runner in the game for those two superbowl years, it does help. And it proves that he didn't do it alone.

tubbs1518
11-25-2013, 05:31 PM
Nonsense.

Nonsense? One of them had about a 52% completion to go with 150 yards 2 TDs and 1 INT, couldn't overcome the wind and that was with a 200 yard rusher.

The other had a 68% completion with 344 yards 3 TDs and 0 INTs while his leading rusher had 58 yards.

Was one of those performances subpar while the other was fantastic? I believe so.

brauneyz
11-25-2013, 05:38 PM
What a great game!

What a ridiculous thread! (everything after Amy's OP, of course!)

Obviously, I am always too nervous during Pats games to be in the chatterbox, but how I fail to see how any real fan of the game of football could not have loved that dual of skill and ineptitude. Yes, I'd say that even if we'd lost. Hell of an entertaining evening, though I am sorry you East Coasters had to stay up till dawn to see that fabulous ending.

Brady is the best QB ever. And I am the best fan. Nuff said! :)

vancemeek
11-25-2013, 06:13 PM
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/suesponte/thread_direction.gif

packa7x
11-25-2013, 06:20 PM
Nonsense? One of them had about a 52% completion to go with 150 yards 2 TDs and 1 INT, couldn't overcome the wind and that was with a 200 yard rusher.

The other had a 68% completion with 344 yards 3 TDs and 0 INTs while his leading rusher had 58 yards.

Was one of those performances subpar while the other was fantastic? I believe so.

Brady has had 6 games with a comp% under 60% and he's 4-2 in those games with 5 TDs and 5 INTs total and averaging just over 200 yards a game in those games this year. He has 2 games with 3+ TDs. Peyton has 2 games with a comp% under 60% and he's 0-2 in those games with 5 TDs and 2 INTs and averaging over 250 yards per game. He has 7 games with 3+ TDs.

Manning had the Broncos up by 24 in the 2nd quarter, Montee Ball fumbles on their first drive. Up by 10. Manning drives 21 yards thru the air only to have the drive killed by 2 bad runs and a sack. Punt. Up by 3. Manning picked, down by 4. Stalled drive. Pats get the ball back, FG, down by 7. Manning goes 5/7 53 yards and a TD on the next drive. Both teams stymied in OT until a muffed punt gave the Pats the ball at the 13. Brady took a knee twice and the Pats got the chip shot FG. A lot different than Brady calmly leading them back. Brady was set up by turnovers in the 2nd half like Manning was in the 1st half. One last turnover did the Broncos in.

wxwax
11-25-2013, 06:23 PM
Nonsense? One of them had about a 52% completion to go with 150 yards 2 TDs and 1 INT, couldn't overcome the wind and that was with a 200 yard rusher.

The other had a 68% completion with 344 yards 3 TDs and 0 INTs while his leading rusher had 58 yards.

Was one of those performances subpar while the other was fantastic? I believe so.

Tell me about games plans and defensive strategies.

The Brady-Manning narrative is so freaking tired.

vancemeek
11-25-2013, 07:20 PM
Anybody who tries to use last night's game to determine anything is fooling themselves.

Wordsworth
11-25-2013, 07:24 PM
I guess you are forgetting about Terrell Davis. It helps to have a running game to win a superbowl.

I'm not saying Elway was a chump. But when you have the best runner in the game for those two superbowl years, it does help. And it proves that he didn't do it alone.

Aye, that's what I was sure to reference the three Superbowls he went to previously and lost. Those teams didn't have Davis.

hobbes27
11-25-2013, 08:02 PM
Aye, that's what I was sure to reference the three Superbowls he went to previously and lost. Those teams didn't have Davis.

My bad. I missed you were referring to the Super Bowl losses.