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DannyMilk
07-17-2010, 05:31 AM
There are a lot of players that define a franchise. Montana the 49ers, Elway the Broncos, and Marino the Dolphins. What about the past decade? Who do you think defined the organization you root for the most, and who was the most valuable? For my team, the Bears, it has to be Urlacher. Following a hall of fame tradition at the linebacker position in Chicago, Urlacher defined what being a Chicago Bear is all about.

TheLinc
07-17-2010, 05:40 AM
Eagles are kind of a no-brainer, and that we just traded him for a draft pick is a pretty sad but accurate commentary on both the franchise and the player. They were mirrors of each other.

The McEagles were good but never great. Very high-highs, and very deep lows. It only makes sense that they part ways to usher in the new decade, but I'll always miss McNabb.

Wordsworth
07-17-2010, 05:48 AM
Under McNabb the lows were never THAT low. Be for real. He was great, he just didn't win the superbowl. He posted positive numbers and consistently made solid playoff runs. He deserved better from the fans.

TheLinc
07-17-2010, 05:58 AM
Under McNabb the lows were never THAT low. Be for real. He was great, he just didn't win the superbowl. He posted positive numbers and consistently made solid playoff runs. He deserved better from the fans.

They were only low because of the promise of being great. It's not fair to place the blame squarely on McNabb's shoulders, but such is being the franchise quarterback. I'll agree that the lows were never that low, but that's the relative prism that we've been been looking at the Eagles through for a number of years. The Super Bowl, the injuries, tying the Bengals, and the 0-2 this past season against Dallas in the last two games. It was time for change, and we all knew it was coming.

I agree he deserves better from the fans. The way we treated him for the years he served the team made me embarrassed to be an Eagles fan at times, but I'll always hang onto my #5 jersey. The entitlement we've had as a team for the past few seasons and as a fan base might be in for a bumpy ride with the personnel changes.

Wordsworth
07-17-2010, 06:05 AM
As long as an Eagles fan is willing to see that he was treated unfairly and that the team wasn't ever that bad. I get that he had it coming with some of the mishaps over the past couple years. But why did the Eagles' faithful become so entitled and expecting of being #1 every year? Who convinced you guys that McNabb would be your savior? If it was the ownership then maybe they should get some blame too.

TheLinc
07-17-2010, 07:30 AM
I mean, the guy was booed on draft day and it only got WORSE - it's not even a conversation about whether McNabb got a fair shake or not. I can't really comment about the entitlement or Anti-Sainthood McNabb found himself in - I've been cheering for the team since I was about six but only seriously started following since just before McNabb was drafted. There might be some deep roots of an inferiority complex for us in our conference, so maybe we became that much more furious when we were finally the best team but unable to capitalize with a title.

The recent LeBracle reminded me of hearing that the Eagles had traded McNabb to the Redskins. I understood the decision, and I have no ill-will towards the guy, but as a sports fan it just makes me want to take a shower, especially because now I am 2-for-2 with the teams responsible - obvious the Eagles, and I live in downtown Miami across from the Heat arena (by no means a fan but a frequent observer with humble musings). Obviously I want my teams to get better, but feeling like the villain and cutting ties the way it happened...ugh I need a drink.

Kosar19
07-17-2010, 10:23 AM
I think the defining character of the Browns the last decade has been "The Back-Up QB". Now, mind you, no actual name in particular. Just the position. That's the guy everybody always wants to play as if he'll (whoever it is) will save us from the misery. The best player on the Team is, and has been, Joe Thomas. Also, he was they're best draft selection. we just haven't had a good enough decade to have a defining player. Hell, we haven't had a positive franchise player since the 80's with Newsome and Kosar. HELP ME!!!!!

giantsfan97
07-17-2010, 11:19 AM
For the Giants it can't be anyone other than the gap-toothed destroyer himself, BIG OL' MICHAEL STRAHANNNN

DannyMilk
07-17-2010, 11:32 AM
Wow, over Tiki? Just curious, I don't disagree or anything, just wonderin what the thought process is as a Giant fan

kotar44
07-17-2010, 11:43 AM
It's simple for Giant fans, because this is a team that always has celebrated its defense first. Add that to the fact that as much as we loved Tiki as a player, there was always something off about him, and winning the SB w/out him validated all those misgivings we had. It's funny because when I saw this post, Strahan immediately came to mind, and I didn't even think of Tiki until he was mentioned.

Resdog154
07-17-2010, 11:51 AM
Chargers were synonomous with LaDainian Tomlinson for the decade. He was the man after joining the league in 2001. Seeing him in a Jets uniform is going to be hard to stomach.

IndyColtsFan
07-17-2010, 12:18 PM
As a Colts fan, its easily Peyton Manning-

DannyMilk
07-17-2010, 12:52 PM
It's simple for Giant fans, because this is a team that always has celebrated its defense first. Add that to the fact that as much as we loved Tiki as a player, there was always something off about him, and winning the SB w/out him validated all those misgivings we had. It's funny because when I saw this post, Strahan immediately came to mind, and I didn't even think of Tiki until he was mentioned.

gotchya very interesting!

buzmeg
07-17-2010, 01:04 PM
There are a lot of players that define a franchise. Montana the 49ers, Elway the Broncos, and Marino the Dolphins. What about the past decade? Who do you think defined the organization you root for the most, and who was the most valuable? For my team, the Bears, it has to be Urlacher. Following a hall of fame tradition at the linebacker position in Chicago, Urlacher defined what being a Chicago Bear is all about.


I hate the term Most Valuable Player (MVP). I know it's been around for years, but what does it really mean in the concept of a team sport. As mentioned above was Strahan more valuable than Barber? Weren't both needed to accomplish their mission? Is defense more important than offense or vice versa? Is a QB more important than a WR or RB? Where do offensive linemen fit into the picture?

What's the proper definition or should the title (MVP) be something else?

DannyMilk
07-17-2010, 01:19 PM
yeah, I wanted to go with most defining face, but I figured MVP was easier. I agree, I get in arguments a lot because usually the "best" gets the award, but I'm not sure that means he was the most valuable. Also, if you break down the end word, value...could that mean if you drafted a guy in the 6th round, and he became a Hall of Famer, and he came cheap for some of his best years, that would make him value-able haha

williwonte
07-17-2010, 01:44 PM
The best franchise player has to be Scott Pioli. He turned a so so team into a real team. Without the defense, it would be nothing. His moves with the offense were good as well. Now that is playing.

TheLinc
07-17-2010, 02:02 PM
I hate the term Most Valuable Player (MVP). I know it's been around for years, but what does it really mean in the concept of a team sport. As mentioned above was Strahan more valuable than Barber? Weren't both needed to accomplish their mission? Is defense more important than offense or vice versa? Is a QB more important than a WR or RB? Where do offensive linemen fit into the picture?

What's the proper definition or should the title (MVP) be something else?

I mean MVP is always such an arbitrary procedure, and you know it's always going to a skill position. The QB wins predominantly, I would think, because they craft the RB/WR a sizable portion, perhaps not as much as their individual skill but a significant amount to be sure. But who protects the QB? Who writes the QB's plays? Who writes the plays that protect the QB?

If you dig too deep, all you get is dirty ;)

TheLinc
07-17-2010, 02:04 PM
Chargers were synonomous with LaDainian Tomlinson for the decade. He was the man after joining the league in 2001. Seeing him in a Jets uniform is going to be hard to stomach.

I would nominate LDT as well, although he fell off after 2007, the years he put in were fantastic. I would go so far as to nominate him for MVFP (Fantasy Player) along with Peyton, McNabb, Brady and Portis perhaps?

LDT won me one title outright and contributed significantly to a second. Always a special place for him in the 00's.

Polishguy00
07-17-2010, 05:06 PM
No, really, who would it be for the Browns? As a symbol, maybe Spurgeon Wynn? Is it Cribbs because he has been the most exciting, even with only three impactful seasons?

For the Bears. Yes, Urlacher, no question.

Kosar19
07-17-2010, 05:23 PM
In all seriousness, it's Cribbs. He's the most dynamic player on the team and the Browns always have good field positin when he returns the ball. When the Browns beat the Steelers last year, it was because of Cribbs. They ran that direct snap to him over and over, he always ran left. The Steelers KNEW what he was going to do and couldn't stop it.

AZCardsFan
07-17-2010, 05:48 PM
Easy for a Cards fan - Kurt Warner. It's not like much happened in the decade prior to his emergence. The Cardinals also didn't keep anyone for the entire decade. Nobody here probably cares, but its Warner.

AZCardsFan
07-17-2010, 05:54 PM
An interesting team that can be open for debate is the Steelers. Was it the Bus due to his 2005 season and SB40 title? Was it Hines b/c he was the glue guy and an integral part of the leadership? Do you go with Roethlesberger b/c the Kordell and Tommy Gun eras were so torturous? Or in true Steelers fashion, does the credit go to a Defensive player like Polamalu, who's importance was showcased last season by his absence?

My personal opinion, and I know it won't be too popular b/c he is a first class d-bag, is Big Ben. I lived in Pittsburgh through the 2003 season and beyond. People are quick to forget how bad that 6-10 team was with Maddox at the helm. Even though Ben was more of a game manager in 2004, he made great decisions and didn't turn the ball over. Over the course of the decade he grew into a more well rounded QB.

Cris Collinsworth
07-17-2010, 07:24 PM
I agree. Big Ben wasn't the Steelers best player, but could they have won 2 Super Bowls without him? I doubt it, despite his poor performance in the SB in Detroit.

But, if I had to pick an MVP on the Steelers after watching them last year, it would be Troy Polomalu. That defense wasn't close to the same. They mystery was gone. They were easier to read. Polomalu's speed and disguises make that a different team. And let's face it, they have dominated at times more because of Dick LeBeau's defense, than their offense.

BayouBoys
07-17-2010, 08:58 PM
I agree. Big Ben wasn't the Steelers best player, but could they have won 2 Super Bowls without him? I doubt it, despite his poor performance in the SB in Detroit.

But, if I had to pick an MVP on the Steelers after watching them last year, it would be Troy Polomalu. That defense wasn't close to the same. They mystery was gone. They were easier to read. Polomalu's speed and disguises make that a different team. And let's face it, they have dominated at times more because of Dick LeBeau's defense, than their offense.

This is exactly why the term MVP is used. If you take that player away, does the team still function completely? I'd have to say Brees for the saints. Without him we would still put up some points because of our style. But it's tough. Guy is a leader.

ScottDCP
07-17-2010, 09:48 PM
As a Bills fan, it's a two man race. I give the nod to Brian Moorman over Aaron Schobel.

Turk Schonert
07-17-2010, 10:06 PM
I agree. Big Ben wasn't the Steelers best player, but could they have won 2 Super Bowls without him? I doubt it, despite his poor performance in the SB in Detroit.

But, if I had to pick an MVP on the Steelers after watching them last year, it would be Troy Polomalu. That defense wasn't close to the same. They mystery was gone. They were easier to read. Polomalu's speed and disguises make that a different team. And let's face it, they have dominated at times more because of Dick LeBeau's defense, than their offense.

Upon saying that last statement, why wouldn't Dick LeBeau be MVP ?

giantsfan97
07-17-2010, 10:14 PM
I would nominate LDT as well, although he fell off after 2007, the years he put in were fantastic. I would go so far as to nominate him for MVFP (Fantasy Player) along with Peyton, McNabb, Brady and Portis perhaps?

LDT won me one title outright and contributed significantly to a second. Always a special place for him in the 00's.
I want to hate you for being an Eagles fan, but your posts are always thought out and well written. And then you referred to Tomlinson as LDT instead of LT which is a big deal to me. I guess not all Eagles fans are terrible terrible people. :cool:

BuckeyeRidley
07-17-2010, 10:39 PM
I have to say the obvious that Tom Brady is the MVP for his team--Straight Up!! After the lost Super Bowl XLII, they went 11-5!!!!! Nice record for a team that was supposed to have a Super Bowl Slump despite not making the playoffs that same year.

No matter what team you root for or what your opinion of Belichick & his Pats are, Tom Brady has been an anchor for them despite the many coach, coordinator & roster changes!!! Tom also won Three Super Bowls, passed buddy Peyton Manning's record of 49 TDs with 50 TDs in 2007 against the Giants (Cris knows 'cause he was there!) & the list goes on!!

Gotta hand it to Tom Terrific, as Trey Wingo calls him.

P.S. Someone will pass Tom Brady's 50 TD record, although it make take a while!

AZCardsFan
07-18-2010, 12:04 AM
Upon saying that last statement, why wouldn't Dick LeBeau be MVP ?

If you could give the MVP to a coordinator, Dick LeBeau is probably the most deserving of that honor. A true defensive genius.

imiweli
07-18-2010, 12:09 AM
Tom Brady - Patriots : Just get in and do your work, sacrifice for the team, and win

Colts01
07-18-2010, 12:13 AM
Peyton.....

KabaModernFan
07-18-2010, 12:26 AM
It's not really a question here, Ray Lewis wins hands down. An undeniable legend in the game and a demigod in this city. He's still the heart and soul of the team, and he's stuck with us through the lows as well as the highs. Jonathan Ogden should also be mentioned here though. He's not the MVP, and it's not really an argument, but he's just as well-liked as Ray Lewis is. Both players meant so much to the early success of this expansion team and he should rightly be mentioned. Ray Lewis is definitely number one, but Ogden would have to be number two, and neither of them are really up for debate.

Tinindian
07-18-2010, 01:51 AM
It's pretty hard to pick an MVP for the Dolphins over the last 10 years, there have been So many great players there. Anquan Bol errr. no we didn't draft him we took Eddie Moore instead. Never played a down. Nice work Dave! Umm, Drew Brees no we didn't draft him either. But the 2nd time we had a chance at Drew, well no I guess Saban passed on him too. Wes Welker, well Wes was the best player we had but Camoron traded him for a 2nd round pick and we got Samson Satele! who we traded last year. But Camoron drafted Patrick Willis at #9, no I guess we drafted Ted Ginn instead. Doesn't every NFL team draft kick returners at #9 overall? But hey, we got the whole Ted Ginn Family too! so I guess it wasn't that bad of a deal.

Ya know Cam Cameron is a fine Offensive Coordinator, but keep him far, VERY far away from the head coaching job of your team.

Really. Please.

hassan812
07-18-2010, 02:04 AM
For the Pats it comes down to Brady and Belichick, but I'd have to go w/ Brady

msclemons
07-18-2010, 02:24 AM
For the 49ers it has to be Bryant Young. He was there at the beginning of the 00's when the team was still good, he lasted through the horrible times and he made his exit as the team was starting to turn it around. Through all the ups and downs he was an absolute class act and a solid player.

DannyMilk
07-18-2010, 02:43 AM
As a Bills fan, it's a two man race. I give the nod to Brian Moorman over Aaron Schobel.

Well played

DannyMilk
07-18-2010, 02:45 AM
Upon saying that last statement, why wouldn't Dick LeBeau be MVP ?

No, Turk, not PlaYA, PlaYER haha...I agree though, no matter what LeBeau will never get enough credit, not matter how much is given.

Chompurself
07-18-2010, 07:53 AM
For the Jax Jags the times have been tough, but after the much debate I'm gonna have to go with the oft injured Fred Taylor who was great(when he wasn't injured)

ncoolong
07-18-2010, 08:02 AM
I agree. Big Ben wasn't the Steelers best player, but could they have won 2 Super Bowls without him? I doubt it, despite his poor performance in the SB in Detroit.

But, if I had to pick an MVP on the Steelers after watching them last year, it would be Troy Polomalu. That defense wasn't close to the same. They mystery was gone. They were easier to read. Polomalu's speed and disguises make that a different team. And let's face it, they have dominated at times more because of Dick LeBeau's defense, than their offense.

I agree completely, the Steelers sorely missed Polamalu last year. If I'm gonna say he's more critical to the team's overall success, though, we'd need to see what the Steelers would be like if Ben wasn't there. Like, say, for 4-6 games....<ahem> ugh...

InNOutBurgler
07-18-2010, 08:10 AM
Couldn't agree more...I'd have to say...Ricky?? As much as anyone he personifies the 2000-2009 Dolphins

Tinindian
07-18-2010, 08:36 PM
If I was going to give a serious choice it would have to be Jason Taylor. Zach and Ricky close behind.

GoBigOrGoHome
07-18-2010, 08:46 PM
Jason Hanson. Sad, but true.

Pattrick
07-18-2010, 10:46 PM
For the 49ers it has to be Bryant Young. He was there at the beginning of the 00's when the team was still good, he lasted through the horrible times and he made his exit as the team was starting to turn it around. Through all the ups and downs he was an absolute class act and a solid player.

Completely agree. I was really wondering and trying to figure out who it would be from my niners. The names I was mulling over:
Young
Hearst (he was a beast but I didn't like the anti-gay comments and I completely forget when he retired or was cut)
Garcia (he was GREAT for us and we should have never cut him)
Andy Lee (one of the better punters in the league and basically what we got in return for getting rid of TO)
TO..... yeah....

Am I forgetting anyone else?
Jeff Ulbrich?

Pattrick
07-18-2010, 10:49 PM
Jason Hanson. Sad, but true.

Thats not sad. Good kicker.... good person from everything that I've read.
Maybe Jon Kitna? Didn't he have a good run for a couple of years in Detroit?
I really hope the Lions start turning things around, they look like they've had a great draft 2 years in a row. I can't wait to see Suh highlights all year long...

MattBer2c
07-19-2010, 12:57 AM
This is exactly why the term MVP is used. If you take that player away, does the team still function completely? I'd have to say Brees for the saints. Without him we would still put up some points because of our style. But it's tough. Guy is a leader.
I agree about Brees. He has been spectacular, but you have to remember Deuce McAllister in this discussion. He was a monster when he was healthy.

GoBigOrGoHome
07-19-2010, 01:19 AM
Thats not sad. Good kicker.... good person from everything that I've read.
Maybe Jon Kitna? Didn't he have a good run for a couple of years in Detroit?
I really hope the Lions start turning things around, they look like they've had a great draft 2 years in a row. I can't wait to see Suh highlights all year long...

He has been a great kicker. Everything you have read about him probably covers about 25% of what he actually does around town.

It's sad because with the number of high draft picks we've had over the years we have not found ONE GUY who can be THE guy. Tom Kowalski of mlive.com is a beat writer for the Lions. In 2007 during a radio interview after the Lions took a 34-3 whuppin' from the Redskins he posed the following question: Assuming that everyone on the Lions & 'Skins are completely healthy and both teams are 0-0 and the season is about to start, if you took the rosters of the two teams and lined them up position by position, would the 'Skins swap anyone from their roster for anyone on the Lions' roster?

The consensus answer? A rookie nicknamed Megatron and Jason Hanson. That's it. As I said: sad, but true.

Pattrick
07-19-2010, 08:05 AM
He has been a great kicker. Everything you have read about him probably covers about 25% of what he actually does around town.

It's sad because with the number of high draft picks we've had over the years we have not found ONE GUY who can be THE guy. Tom Kowalski of mlive.com is a beat writer for the Lions. In 2007 during a radio interview after the Lions took a 34-3 whuppin' from the Redskins he posed the following question: Assuming that everyone on the Lions & 'Skins are completely healthy and both teams are 0-0 and the season is about to start, if you took the rosters of the two teams and lined them up position by position, would the 'Skins swap anyone from their roster for anyone on the Lions' roster?

The consensus answer? A rookie nicknamed Megatron and Jason Hanson. That's it. As I said: sad, but true.

lol thats awesome.

Polishguy00
07-19-2010, 09:50 AM
I am going to try as a fan of football to guess each team's guy. Again, not necessarily MVP, but the face of the franchise. I couple I think of are not players. This is only my perspective, so please, discuss. I am just writing these, so obviously will be missed.

Jets- Curtis Martin
Dolphins- Jason Taylor
Pats- Tom Brady
Bills- Nothing came to me at first, then Aaron Schobel

Jags-Brunell
Texans-Schaub
Colts-Peyton
Titans-Eddie George

Oakland-Rich Gannon
KC-Larry Johnson
SD-Tomlinson
Den-Plummer?

Cleveland-Cribbs
Pittsburgh-Big Ben
Ravens-Ray Lewis
Cincy-Carson Palmer

Philly-McNabb
Dallas-Jerry Jones
Washington-Dan Snyder
Giants-Strahan, then Tiki

Arizona-Warner
STL-Warner
Seattle-Hassleback
SF-Gore

New Orleans-Brees
Atlanta-Vick, Ryan
Carolina-Delhomme
Tampa Bay-Ronde Barber, Derrick Brooks

Chicago-Urlacher
Green Bay-Favre
Minny-Peterson
Detroit-Porcher

Kosar19
07-19-2010, 10:53 AM
You know what's messed up, I think Favre and I still think Green Bay. Sorry to all the Packer folks out there. It takes a second and then you feel wrong and a little dirty.

Pruitt
07-19-2010, 11:49 AM
Sadly, in Buffalo it may be their only pro-bowler of the decade - Punter Brian Moorman.

ScottDCP
07-19-2010, 11:52 AM
Sadly, in Buffalo it may be their only pro-bowler of the decade - Punter Brian Moorman.

It is - but Schobel got in on merit a couple times. He's close. I give it to Moorman on the strength of durability - the last year and a half really took a total on Aaron Schobel. Plus, he isn't all that good at covering tailbacks twenty yards downfield. Oh wait, why is he doing that at all, much less more than once a game? Sorry, lost it for a moment there.

Pruitt
07-19-2010, 11:55 AM
It is - but Schobel got in on merit a couple times. He's close. I give it to Moorman on the strength of durability - the last year and a half really took a total on Aaron Schobel. Plus, he isn't all that good at covering tailbacks twenty yards downfield. Oh wait, why is he doing that at all, much less more than once a game? Sorry, lost it for a moment there.

Don't get me started!

You're right about Schobel - if he wasn't the only good lineman during the decade, he'd have been better known around the league.

GBPKS
07-19-2010, 02:31 PM
Wow, over Tiki? Just curious, I don't disagree or anything, just wonderin what the thought process is as a Giant fan

Not a Giant fan, but for starters Tiki wasn't on the team that won the Super Bowl...

GBPKS
07-19-2010, 02:33 PM
Upon saying that last statement, why wouldn't Dick LeBeau be MVP ?

Doesn't the "P" in "MVP" stand for Player?

DannyMilk
07-19-2010, 04:27 PM
I am going to try as a fan of football to guess each team's guy. Again, not necessarily MVP, but the face of the franchise. I couple I think of are not players. This is only my perspective, so please, discuss. I am just writing these, so obviously will be missed.

Jags-Brunell
Texans-Schaub
Colts-Peyton
Titans-Eddie George

I go with Andre Johnson in Houston personally...but I don't live there haha

TheLinc
07-20-2010, 04:39 AM
I go with Andre Johnson in Houston personally...but I don't live there haha

Agreed. Also Steve Smith for Carolina and Ricky Williams for Miami.