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View Full Version : Who's to blame ?



Turk Schonert
08-02-2010, 05:06 PM
All the recent talk has been about 1st round rookie contracts. The players at the top of the draft have inked the biggest contracts in NFL history at their perspective positions. With players picked in front of and behind having signed, why are draft picks still holding out ? Whose fault is it ? Is it the agents fault, the players, the teams negotiator, the system. I'm a firm believer that the agent works for the player, and if the player (especially a QB) wants to be at camp on time, it's up him to say ... get it done or I'm changing agents. The money is so outrageously high, what price does a player put on missing practices, upsetting the head
coach, or turning veteran players against him, as well as hurting his chances to start. I blame greedy agents mostly but I also have to put some of the blame on the players, after all, they're the ones hiring the agents ?

GBPKS
08-02-2010, 05:17 PM
I think it's difficult to make a broad statement on who is at fault because each negotiation is different.

Obviously, there are pretty defined parameters for where the contracts should be with respect to total dollars and guaranteed dollars, and even number of years, but it's difficult to know whether the player/agent are trying to make more than they "should" or if the teams are offering less than they "should."

It's hard to blame the players for holding out for every cent they think they can get because NFL careers are so short. When you have a team like the Bengals that seems to have a holdout every single year, I find it hard to blame that on the player.

Bengals1181
08-02-2010, 05:20 PM
I think part of the blame, (whether it be from the Union, other players, or from the agents), is rookies not taking a more active role in their contract negotiation. Most sit back and let their agent handle it until the agent says sign. I think that's horribly unwise. I doubt most agents care about the player or how much time he misses. They care about their commission.

DannyMilk
08-02-2010, 05:35 PM
Usually I'd say the agents, and that's true, but for the sake of this site and conversation, I'm gonna go out on a limb.

I blame JaMarcus Russel and Cade McNown. I blame Maurice Clarett. I blame all the rookies who underperform and DON'T EARN their money. They are the reason why a lot of these players NEED guaranteed money. I feel bad for the kids that take care of their bodies, get an injury, and are never the same. It isn't their fault. It's hard to say, "yeah well they should have had something to fall back on" when football has taken 70% of their time up until that point. How about we come up with a decreasing formula for the agent's commission the longer his player is held out of camp.

I agree that the PLAYER, not the team of agent, player, and family need to take a more vocal role. However, keep in mind, most of these guys are still 20, 21, 22...Some of them are just not mature enough to understand it all quite yet. Some would get ripped off, some would get too greedy. It's easy to look at the other 31 picks, point at the numbers, and say, "I fit in here, pay me"...but most want more. More guaranteed money. I would be so happy if some of these guys got incentive laden contracts. EARN the money then, don't just say you think you'll be this or that role on the team...literally EARN IT.

Also, kind of a dumb question, but is their agent's money included in this contract? Is it a percentage of the contract? I just wonder if the kids do the math so if they get 38 mil, in their mind they are thinking it's only 35 mil or whatever, not that it's a huge deal, just wondering.

Turk Schonert
08-02-2010, 05:47 PM
Usually I'd say the agents, and that's true, but for the sake of this site and conversation, I'm gonna go out on a limb.

I blame JaMarcus Russel and Cade McNown. I blame Maurice Clarett. I blame all the rookies who underperform and DON'T EARN their money. They are the reason why a lot of these players NEED guaranteed money. I feel bad for the kids that take care of their bodies, get an injury, and are never the same. It isn't their fault. It's hard to say, "yeah well they should have had something to fall back on" when football has taken 70% of their time up until that point. How about we come up with a decreasing formula for the agent's commission the longer his player is held out of camp.

I agree that the PLAYER, not the team of agent, player, and family need to take a more vocal role. However, keep in mind, most of these guys are still 20, 21, 22...Some of them are just not mature enough to understand it all quite yet. Some would get ripped off, some would get too greedy. It's easy to look at the other 31 picks, point at the numbers, and say, "I fit in here, pay me"...but most want more. More guaranteed money. I would be so happy if some of these guys got incentive laden contracts. EARN the money then, don't just say you think you'll be this or that role on the team...literally EARN IT.

Also, kind of a dumb question, but is their agent's money included in this contract? Is it a percentage of the contract? I just wonder if the kids do the math so if they get 38 mil, in their mind they are thinking it's only 35 mil or whatever, not that it's a huge deal, just wondering.

Agents get between 2-4% of the total money earned throughout the contract.

Polishguy00
08-02-2010, 06:22 PM
I think agents do stand out from the conversation, although the full conversation finds blame with basically everyone but the water boy. We have gone from owners refusing to talk to agents to agents running things rather easily in about 30 years. I agree that it is up to the player to take more of a role in EVERYTHING that they do. The way many of the top athletes are told they are the greatest can eventually lead to the behavior we see. We see athletes trusting the wrong people, thinking about on the short term and forgetting what is important...it is still their money.

I do think a lot of kids sit back and let the agents do their thing. They don't care about when they play, just that they play for top dollar. The first conversation with a guy might end with the agent telling the player, "There has been a 16% average increase in the guaranteed money for your slot in the last 10 years. I'll get you 19%." Crap like that leads to the long times it can take for a negotiation.

Players and agents are most to blame, but everyone has their part.

Bengals1181
08-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Usually I'd say the agents, and that's true, but for the sake of this site and conversation, I'm gonna go out on a limb.

I blame JaMarcus Russel and Cade McNown. I blame Maurice Clarett. I blame all the rookies who underperform and DON'T EARN their money. They are the reason why a lot of these players NEED guaranteed money. I feel bad for the kids that take care of their bodies, get an injury, and are never the same. It isn't their fault. It's hard to say, "yeah well they should have had something to fall back on" when football has taken 70% of their time up until that point. How about we come up with a decreasing formula for the agent's commission the longer his player is held out of camp.

I agree that the PLAYER, not the team of agent, player, and family need to take a more vocal role. However, keep in mind, most of these guys are still 20, 21, 22...Some of them are just not mature enough to understand it all quite yet. Some would get ripped off, some would get too greedy. It's easy to look at the other 31 picks, point at the numbers, and say, "I fit in here, pay me"...but most want more. More guaranteed money. I would be so happy if some of these guys got incentive laden contracts. EARN the money then, don't just say you think you'll be this or that role on the team...literally EARN IT.

Also, kind of a dumb question, but is their agent's money included in this contract? Is it a percentage of the contract? I just wonder if the kids do the math so if they get 38 mil, in their mind they are thinking it's only 35 mil or whatever, not that it's a huge deal, just wondering.




I'm sorry, I can't quite buy that a 21 year old doesn't get that they control their own life.

BigDerf
08-02-2010, 07:36 PM
I'm sorry, I can't quite buy that a 21 year old doesn't get that they control their own life.

Have you met any 21 year olds lately? Specifically one's who were football STARS at their respective schools? Some are going to want our for more because they feel they are entitled to more because they are special. On the other side are going to be guys who just want to get into camp and play football who would be taken advantage of contract wise if someone didn't watch out for them.

The problem i feel originates with the agents because they are the ones who really started the bargaining tools that have driven the system out of control. They are the ones who argue about draft slots and demand their client get paid more than a similar player taken a year earlier..... whether or not the player is actually better or worse than the prior year's player.

DannyMilk
08-02-2010, 10:20 PM
They get that they control their own life, but when, for a lot of them, an income of $16,000 a year turns into $3Million a year, some of them can't handle it. Some don't have much, so they are actually smart enough to get more guaranteed because they know, hey, if I get injured this could be it, so that extra 2-3 million overall matters. But for a lot of the young men, I have a feeling it is about being disrespected (if another player gets more than them), greed, ignorance (and I don't mean for that to be in a bad way, but moreso the actual meaning of ignorant; unknowing...thye see everyone asking for more money, so why not, even though in the long run it would have been better to get into camp instead of holding out for that extra 1-2 million), and immaturity. Some guys understand they can lead their own lives, and that's why they are available to be drafted instead of doing something else; but the change from college to the pros is a giant leap.

jaGmen
08-03-2010, 01:00 AM
Super rich owners pay guys who haven't played a down millions of dollars. Agents know they have all this money and just keep raising the price year after year