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GBPKS
08-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Everything I read this offseason talks about how much talent the Dallas Cowboys have, and I'm not sure I understand all the love.

Sitting here as a Green Bay Packer fan, I need someone to explain the Cowboys roster to me and why they should be the favorites in the NFC. Maybe I'm biased from watching the Packers shut them out for 59 minutes last season, or by the Vikings destroying them in the playoffs, but I don't see it.

Offense:

Quarterback: Tony Romo is a good, not great, quarterback. I don't know that any personnel director in the league would take him over Aaron Rodgers, but I could be wrong. He eliminated a lot of the interceptions last year and played well, but still didn't put up Rodgers-esque stats.

Running back: Here, the Cowboys earn marks for quantity but the jury is still out on the quality. Marion Barber has seemingly declined in productivity every year since becoming the starting running back - not unlike Brandon Jacobs in New York. Felix Jones is a home run hitter but hasn't proven to be very durable. Tashard Choice has shown flashes as well. The Cowboys certainly have more depth at the running back position than do the Packers, but Ryan Grant is a solid, but unspectacular back who cranks out 1,200 yards every season. The Packers haven't cultivated a ton of depth behind Grant, although Brandon Jackson was a second round draft pick and has proven to be a viable third down back. He hasn't gotten much opportunity behind Grant, but has shown flashes when he has gotten extended playing time.

Wide receiver: Miles Austin exploded on the scene last year, but Roy Williams has been a perennial disappointment, Patrick Crayton and Sam Hurd provide quality depth, and Dez Bryant is a rookie. The Packers' receiving corps, to me, doesn't have to take a back seat to Dallas either - Greg Jennings and Donald Driver are one of the top starting tandems in the entire league, and I think Jennings is superior to Austin and Driver is far superior to Williams. James Jones and Jordy Nelson are certainly of similar caliber to Crayton and Hurd. Dez Bryant is the wild card for Dallas, but all he is right now is a talented rookie who already has found himself injured.

Tight end: Dallas has Jason Witten and Martellus Bennett. Green Bay saw Jermichael Finley burst on the scene and still has veteran Donald Lee providing depth. I would give the edge here to the Cowboys, but not by much.

Offensive Line: Dallas lost their starting left tackle and now are relying on Doug Free (who the Packers abused last year) or Alex Barron to step in. Good luck. The strength of the Cowboy line is the interior - Leonard Davis, Andre Gurode, and Kyle Kosier - but all three of them are getting up there in age. The Packer offensive line was much maligned last year, but this year has much needed depth behind the two aging tackles, and has younger albeit less accomplished talent on the interior of the line with Scott Wells and Josh Sitton, plus the combo of Daryn Colledge and Jason Spitz at left guard.


Defense:

Front Seven: The Cowboys have some big names here - DeMarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Anthony Spencer, Jay Ratliff. The remainder of their linebackers (Bradie James, Keith Brooking) are nothing special. The Packers have a very strong front 3 on their DLine (the underrated Cullen Jenkins, workman Ryan Pickett, and top 10 draft pick BJ Raji) and a very deep pool of linebackers (led by Clay Matthews on the outside and Nick Barnett on the inside). The Packers haven't found the complementary pass rusher that the Cowboys have, but I am interested to see what havoc BJ Raji can cause on the inside at the nose.

Secondary: Mike Jenkins and Terence Newman are good corners. Charles Woodson is an elite corner for the Packers. The Cowboys safeties are certainly nothing to write home about, while the Packers have Pro Bowler Nick Collins.


I just fail to see where the Cowboys have this overwhelming talent advantage over the rest of the NFC that I see columnists like Peter King and John Clayton refer to time and time again. Am I missing something?

FLPackerFan
08-03-2010, 04:50 PM
They Cowboys are the glamorous pick. Dallas for the media is like reality TV. Green Bay is boring when there is not Favre drama. Dallas's problem is Jerry Jones. This team will be good, but will not win it all. Wade Phillips is a good coach, but Jones call the shots. Jones has already thrown Phillips under the bus this season by saying Bryant was worked to hard causing his ankle injury. Teams that go on to greatness do not have the distractions and circus like atmosphere going on. When Dallas had its run in the 90s, Jimmy Johnson controlled things. Hense the power struggle between him and Jones. Switzer took over and won by accident. The team won on it own because of the leadership and talent one the field. Jerry had all the control and you see what has happened since. This is what will happen with the Jets this year. They are talented and the popular pick, but it is New York and they are setting themselves up a letdown. With Baltimore's injuries, I am switching my pick to San Diego. I have heard good things from them so far and they have the talent. I love the Packers this year because things are quite, players are happy, everyone is signed, and they can focus on football. That is a good sign.

ScottDCP
08-03-2010, 04:55 PM
I think it's the defense. While I don't follow either team like I used to, Dallas last year did a bangup job on D for most of the season, while Green Bay struggled. Perhaps folks are mistakenly projecting similar performance this year?

There is one point you make that is often not properly emphasized: GB lacks a complementary pass rusher. That guy is huge if you have him. Most every top defense does. Most average defenses yhave one, and most lousy D's have none.

Alex
08-03-2010, 05:02 PM
I think it's the defense. While I don't follow either team like I used to, Dallas last year did a bangup job on D for most of the season, while Green Bay struggled. Perhaps folks are mistakenly projecting similar performance this year?

There is one point you make that is often not properly emphasized: GB lacks a complementary pass rusher. That guy is huge if you have him. Most every top defense does. Most average defenses yhave one, and most lousy D's have none.

I think The Dallas name just imposes some "status" or air of greatness....the Cowboys...Americas Team...it's all bull and if the past seasons have taught us anything, its that the Cowboys aren't a Super Bowl contender. They may look great and sound great, but they are not great...they are good. Yes they make the playoffs routinely, but they've been choke artists and haven't been able to make it count when it matters...I'm still not sold on Romo either, and i think most of that Cowboy team is starting to wonder if he'll ever be able to get them thru the playoffs...at all.

GBPKS
08-03-2010, 05:03 PM
I think it's the defense. While I don't follow either team like I used to, Dallas last year did a bangup job on D for most of the season, while Green Bay struggled. Perhaps folks are mistakenly projecting similar performance this year?

There is one point you make that is often not properly emphasized: GB lacks a complementary pass rusher. That guy is huge if you have him. Most every top defense does. Most average defenses yhave one, and most lousy D's have none.

Green Bay was the #2 defense in the league last year and led the league in takeaways. The Packer D did have some high profile dog games (including the playoffs), but Brett Favre pretty much tore the Cowboy D apart in the playoffs.

Dallas was second in the league in scoring defense last year thanks to two shutouts they posted in the last 2 games of the season, so they do have that working in their favor, but the Packers offense also scored 100 more points on the year than the Cowboys did.

I am interested to see how Green Bay's pass rush develops this year.

GBPKS
08-03-2010, 05:05 PM
They Cowboys are the glamorous pick. Dallas for the media is like reality TV. Green Bay is boring when there is not Favre drama. Dallas's problem is Jerry Jones. This team will be good, but will not win it all. Wade Phillips is a good coach, but Jones call the shots. Jones has already thrown Phillips under the bus this season by saying Bryant was worked to hard causing his ankle injury. Teams that go on to greatness do not have the distractions and circus like atmosphere going on. When Dallas had its run in the 90s, Jimmy Johnson controlled things. Hense the power struggle between him and Jones. Switzer took over and won by accident. The team won on it own because of the leadership and talent one the field. Jerry had all the control and you see what has happened since. This is what will happen with the Jets this year. They are talented and the popular pick, but it is New York and they are setting themselves up a letdown. With Baltimore's injuries, I am switching my pick to San Diego. I have heard good things from them so far and they have the talent. I love the Packers this year because things are quite, players are happy, everyone is signed, and they can focus on football. That is a good sign.

San Diego has more turmoil going on than anyone - three high profile holdouts (left tackle Marcus McNeil, wide receiver Vincent Jackson, face of the defense Shawne Meriman) plus the AFC's version of Wade Phillips (Mr. Norv Turner) coaching the team.

I think the Chargers could be prime to fall victim to the 13-3 curse I wrote about in my "Playoffs by the Numbers" post.

ScottDCP
08-03-2010, 05:07 PM
Green Bay was the #2 defense in the league last year and led the league in takeaways. The Packer D did have some high profile dog games (including the playoffs), but Brett Favre pretty much tore the Cowboy D apart in the playoffs.

Dallas was second in the league in scoring defense last year thanks to two shutouts they posted in the last 2 games of the season, so they do have that working in their favor, but the Packers offense also scored 100 more points on the year than the Cowboys did.

I am interested to see how Green Bay's pass rush develops this year.

Got me there. For what it's worth, I don't mind the misconceptions - it's providing better odds in some circles.

FLPackerFan
08-03-2010, 05:21 PM
I think the Packers will be fine with pressure this year. I think Brad Jones did quite well for a 7th rounder taking over for Kampen. They did better than I thought they would last year with the switch. This year things are going well.

As for Romo, I don't think he is truly committed to being great. I think he loves being the celebrity. Reminds me of Dale Jr. Dallas is a circus and Jerry Jones is the ring leader.

As for San Diego, now I think of it, your may be right with the holdouts. I like them though because I am a fan of Rivers. The AFC is funny. I picked Baltimore, but they have a lot to overcome right now with injuries. People like Cincinnati, but I cannot pick any team with TO let alone one with him and Ocho Cinco. Sounds like a powder keg to me. The Jets are popular, but I think they will disappoint. Right now I would have to go back to the most consistent team in Indianapolis, and not overlook New England, or even Miami. Last but not least, don't forget about Pittsburgh. If they can be even when Ben comes back and play Steeler football by running first, they will be there.

GBPKS
08-03-2010, 05:25 PM
I think the Packers will be fine with pressure this year. I think Brad Jones did quite well for a 7th rounder taking over for Kampen. They did better than I thought they would last year with the switch. This year things are going well.

As for Romo, I don't think he is truly committed to being great. I think he loves being the celebrity. Reminds me of Dale Jr. Dallas is a circus and Jerry Jones is the ring leader.

As for San Diego, now I think of it, your may be right with the holdouts. I like them though because I am a fan of Rivers. The AFC is funny. I picked Baltimore, but they have a lot to overcome right now with injuries. People like Cincinnati, but I cannot pick any team with TO let alone one with him and Ocho Cinco. Sounds like a powder keg to me. The Jets are popular, but I think they will disappoint. Right now I would have to go back to the most consistent team in Indianapolis, and not overlook New England, or even Miami. Last but not least, don't forget about Pittsburgh. If they can be even when Ben comes back and play Steeler football by running first, they will be there.

Yeah, the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers are kind of flying under the radar right now. Kind of weird...

Alex
08-03-2010, 05:27 PM
Yeah, the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers are kind of flying under the radar right now. Kind of weird...

I dont like to overlook the Patriots, but I think they are on the decline...aside from Brady who do they have? Where's the running game? Who's playing Defense?

FLPackerFan
08-03-2010, 05:30 PM
Don't ever underestimate the Patriots. They do a heck of of a job drafting and replacing players as do the Steelers. That is why they are consistent each year.

Bengals1181
08-03-2010, 05:31 PM
San Diego has more turmoil going on than anyone - three high profile holdouts (left tackle Marcus McNeil, wide receiver Vincent Jackson, face of the defense Shawne Meriman) plus the AFC's version of Wade Phillips (Mr. Norv Turner) coaching the team.

I think the Chargers could be prime to fall victim to the 13-3 curse I wrote about in my "Playoffs by the Numbers" post.


I think the Chargers are overrated to begin with, but yea.

They've lost their best corner, LT, and their starting 3-4 nose tackle.

At this point, their starting left tackle, their best WR, and their starting ILB are all holding out with no hope in sight.


Huge blows for them.

GBPKS
08-03-2010, 05:39 PM
I dont like to overlook the Patriots, but I think they are on the decline...aside from Brady who do they have? Where's the running game? Who's playing Defense?

Aside from Peyton Manning, who do the Colts have?

The Patriots were 5th in the league in scoring defense last year, so even though they have shed some of the bigger names from their glory years, they were still pretty reasonable on defense. They have brought in quite a young infusion of talent with their drafting the last few years - just accumulating picks and getting cheap second and third round guys.

Their OLine (assuming they resolve things with Mankins) is fine and they have never had (or needed) an elite running game. Brady, Moss, Welker - pretty much takes care of the offense.

FLPackerFan
08-03-2010, 05:43 PM
People said the same thing about the Colts last year after Dungy left. Last I saw they were in the Super Bowl. The Colts will always be a threat as long as Manning is at the top of his games. The same goes for the Patriots with Brady and Belichek.

RSConn5
08-03-2010, 05:45 PM
Reasons the Cowboys are better than the Packers:

1. Better Offensive Line- Dallas led the NFC in rushing last year. Aaron Rodgers was sacked 50 times and Romo was sacked 34 so thats an average of a whole sack a game. LT is a question mark but Flozell Adams is tops in the league in pre-snap penalties every year and he was declining. Either Free of Baron should do as good a job as Flozell did.

2. Better Skill Players- Miles Austin is better than Greg Jennings (Austin had 81 rec 1,320 yards 11 TDs; Jennings had 68 rec 1,113 yds 4 TDs). Driver is on the decline and Roy Williams is still in his prime. Dez Bryant will be an impact player immediately regardless of the injury. Jermichael Finley is a good recieving threat but bad blocker. Witten is the most complete tight end in the game who is equally as good of a receiver as a blocker. Ask anybody who they would rather have and 9 out of 10 people say Witten. Best runningback trio in the game. Barber was hurt last year and is healthy now, Felix is one of the best big play RBs in the game, and Tashard Choice is a great as well. Would take all 3 over Ryan Grant.

3. Defense- Pro bowl nose guard (Ratliff), best pass rusher in the game (Ware) paired with a good complementary pass rusher (Spencer), 2 solid MLBs, and 2 Pro bowl corner backs. Green Bay can say all they want about being the #2 defense last year. I had fun watching them give up 51 in their playoff loss.

The only thing Green Bay has better than Dallas is the QB but Rodgers isn't that much better than Romo. Add all those things up and the fact that Dallas went further in the playoffs last year is why Dallas is the favorite in the NFC especially with Favre retiring.

RSConn5
08-03-2010, 05:48 PM
Oh and don't give me crap about Favre tearing us up in the playoffs because Favre tore up the Packers even worse during the regular season. TWICE.

Alex
08-03-2010, 05:52 PM
Aside from Peyton Manning, who do the Colts have?

The Patriots were 5th in the league in scoring defense last year, so even though they have shed some of the bigger names from their glory years, they were still pretty reasonable on defense. They have brought in quite a young infusion of talent with their drafting the last few years - just accumulating picks and getting cheap second and third round guys.

Their OLine (assuming they resolve things with Mankins) is fine and they have never had (or needed) an elite running game. Brady, Moss, Welker - pretty much takes care of the offense.

how about joseph addai and donald brown? or a recieving core in Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie and Anthony Gonzalez? How about two of the best defensive ends in the biz - Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis...

I'm sorry but I'd take the Colts to beat the Patriots any week....minus blizzard conditions :-D

FootballFan
08-03-2010, 06:05 PM
The Cowboys are riding the top of the wave of personnel that Bill Parcells started building a couple of years ago. They're 3 deep with very talented running backs. They're also three deep at TE in playmakers in Witten, Martellus Bennett and this year in camp - John Phillips emerging. They've got a dominant OL. They didn't run at all to the left last year because Flozell couldn't move - they will be able to go up the gut and both sides this year. OL depth is a problem - if any of the starting 5 go down for an extending time they could see problems. Marc Colombo came back WAY too early last year off a serious foot/ankle injury and didn't do well against Minnesota, and that game I think was the icing on the cake for calling it a career in Dallas for Flozell Adams - but the interior of that line is as big and dominant as it gets.

The problem - as I've mentioned before - is the glamour game that Jerry Jones wants and the fans want in Dallas. Jason Garrett gets away from the running game in short yardage/goal line situations, drives me insane to see 5 wideouts and an empty backfield when you're at the 2 yard line. Screams p8ssy football to me and that's not what I want from my cowboys. He is way too quick to abandon the running game in general - and in many games - seems like he doesn't game plan at all to use the run - instead - relying on defenses to gear up for the run based on previous weeks performance or something. The craziness around Dez Bryant makes me nuts - the Cowboys offense fell apart in Green Bay because they got behind on the scoreboard and abandoned the run - they fell apart in Minnesota because they didn't have tackles on either side of the line that could move to keep up with their DE's in pass protection. All the Cowboys need to do to go the distance - is commit to dominating that line of scrimmage of offense.

On defense - they're VERY good. They've got a guy in Jay Ratliff that is probably the best nose guard in the league IMO - and not just because I'm Dallas lackey. That guy is just scary fast and good. He's in the backfield before the center can get both hands up. They've got Demarcus Ware. Period. They've got a guy in Anthony Spencer that filled in for Greg Ellis and is playing better than Ellis ever did on the other side of the formation. They've finally got their energy guy in the middle in Keith Brooking. The secondary is solid with young, talented CBs maturing. Safety is the only question mark - and they seem to be doing ok in camp so far. Romo? If he's throwing 25-30 times a game - this team dominates. IF he's throwing more -they look terrible.

GBPKS
08-03-2010, 06:11 PM
Reasons the Cowboys are better than the Packers:

1. Better Offensive Line- Dallas led the NFC in rushing last year. Aaron Rodgers was sacked 50 times and Romo was sacked 34 so thats an average of a whole sack a game. LT is a question mark but Flozell Adams is tops in the league in pre-snap penalties every year and he was declining. Either Free of Baron should do as good a job as Flozell did.

2. Better Skill Players- Miles Austin is better than Greg Jennings (Austin had 81 rec 1,320 yards 11 TDs; Jennings had 68 rec 1,113 yds 4 TDs). Driver is on the decline and Roy Williams is still in his prime. Dez Bryant will be an impact player immediately regardless of the injury. Jermichael Finley is a good recieving threat but bad blocker. Witten is the most complete tight end in the game who is equally as good of a receiver as a blocker. Ask anybody who they would rather have and 9 out of 10 people say Witten. Best runningback trio in the game. Barber was hurt last year and is healthy now, Felix is one of the best big play RBs in the game, and Tashard Choice is a great as well. Would take all 3 over Ryan Grant.

3. Defense- Pro bowl nose guard (Ratliff), best pass rusher in the game (Ware) paired with a good complementary pass rusher (Spencer), 2 solid MLBs, and 2 Pro bowl corner backs. Green Bay can say all they want about being the #2 defense last year. I had fun watching them give up 51 in their playoff loss.

The only thing Green Bay has better than Dallas is the QB but Rodgers isn't that much better than Romo. Add all those things up and the fact that Dallas went further in the playoffs last year is why Dallas is the favorite in the NFC especially with Favre retiring.

Let's go in order...

1) Dallas did not lead the NFC in rushing. Carolina led the NFC in rushing and by a pretty wide margin. Dallas was third in the NFC in rushing, and Green Bay was fifth. The Packers also ran more productively - scoring 20 TD with their running game versus 14 for the Cowboys. Dallas did also pass for slightly more yardage than the Packers last season (268 YPG versus 261), but again the Packers were more productive, scoring 30 TD to the Cowboys' 26. The Packer offensive line was certainly a weakness on the team last year, but has improved over the offseason. The Cowboy offensive line has gotten older and weaker in the offseason. Flozell may have led the league in false starts, but he was still a better blocker than Barron or Free.

2) Miles Austin had a great season last year - but comparing stat lines with Jennings is a little deceiving. Miles Austin had more catches and yards than his next two wide receivers (Williams and Crayton) combined. Jennings and Driver had book-end seasons, both with 68-70 catches and over 1,100 yards. Just because Aaron Rodgers spread his touchdowns around (5 players with at least 4 TD passes) while Austin caught 42% of the TDs Romo threw last year doesn't make Austin a better player. And if Roy Williams (38 catches, 600 yards) is in his prime, I would hate to see him when he is on the decline like Driver. Like I said, Dallas has depth at running back but it's all injury prone. Ryan Grant has been a rock in the starting lineup for the last 3 years and has been ultra consistent. The Packer offense is the first offense in NFL history to post back-to-back seasons with a 4,000 yard passer, a 1,200 yard rusher, and two 1,000 yard receivers. I give Dallas the edge at tight end, but not by much.

3) Defense. Since Green Bay's defense is so terrible, let me ask why the Cowboys couldn't score on them last year until they got a garbage time touchdown in the last minute of a 17-0 game? Yes, the Vikings offense did torch the Packers' defense last year. The only difference is that the Packer offense actually scored a few points themselves in those games and didn't lay down and die like the Cowboys did in the playoffs.


That's the real knock on Dallas, isn't it? Million dollar talent with a ten cent heart? The Cowboys got down 17-3 to the Vikings and rolled over and died. The Packers got down 14-0 against the Cardinals and rallied back to send the game into overtime. I suppose at the end of the day, a loss is a loss - but I don't know how Dallas fans can be brimming with confidence and calling themselves the favorites after getting absolutely brutalized in the playoffs.

FLPackerFan
08-03-2010, 06:12 PM
I agree that Dallas has a lot of talent and should have been in the Super Bowl 2 of the last 3 years. However it is true that the nucleus of that team was built by Parcells. Jerry Jones does not know how to build a TEAM. When those star players get old, they will have nothing. Jerry has to have stars and a circus around him. Dez Bryant I predict will be a bust. He is trouble. he will also miss a lot of time with the injury and be behind on top of not playing last year. I know I would not put my money on them. Don't under estimate the other teams in the East either.

GBPKS
08-03-2010, 06:14 PM
The Cowboys are riding the top of the wave of personnel that Bill Parcells started building a couple of years ago. They're 3 deep with very talented running backs. They're also three deep at TE in playmakers in Witten, Martellus Bennett and this year in camp - John Phillips emerging. They've got a dominant OL. They didn't run at all to the left last year because Flozell couldn't move - they will be able to go up the gut and both sides this year. OL depth is a problem - if any of the starting 5 go down for an extending time they could see problems. Marc Colombo came back WAY too early last year off a serious foot/ankle injury and didn't do well against Minnesota, and that game I think was the icing on the cake for calling it a career in Dallas for Flozell Adams - but the interior of that line is as big and dominant as it gets.

The problem - as I've mentioned before - is the glamour game that Jerry Jones wants and the fans want in Dallas. Jason Garrett gets away from the running game in short yardage/goal line situations, drives me insane to see 5 wideouts and an empty backfield when you're at the 2 yard line. Screams p8ssy football to me and that's not what I want from my cowboys. He is way too quick to abandon the running game in general - and in many games - seems like he doesn't game plan at all to use the run - instead - relying on defenses to gear up for the run based on previous weeks performance or something. The craziness around Dez Bryant makes me nuts - the Cowboys offense fell apart in Green Bay because they got behind on the scoreboard and abandoned the run - they fell apart in Minnesota because they didn't have tackles on either side of the line that could move to keep up with their DE's in pass protection. All the Cowboys need to do to go the distance - is commit to dominating that line of scrimmage of offense.

On defense - they're VERY good. They've got a guy in Jay Ratliff that is probably the best nose guard in the league IMO - and not just because I'm Dallas lackey. That guy is just scary fast and good. He's in the backfield before the center can get both hands up. They've got Demarcus Ware. Period. They've got a guy in Anthony Spencer that filled in for Greg Ellis and is playing better than Ellis ever did on the other side of the formation. They've finally got their energy guy in the middle in Keith Brooking. The secondary is solid with young, talented CBs maturing. Safety is the only question mark - and they seem to be doing ok in camp so far. Romo? If he's throwing 25-30 times a game - this team dominates. IF he's throwing more -they look terrible.

Thanks - this was a very insightful post.

I'm not saying that Dallas isn't good. I just take exception when they are portrayed as hands down the most talented team in the conference because I don't see much of a gap between them and the Packers or the Vikings.

FLPackerFan
08-03-2010, 06:21 PM
Let the world talk about everyone but the Packers. I like having them be the underdog.

JUMPAROUND
08-03-2010, 07:04 PM
Let's go in order...

1) Dallas did not lead the NFC in rushing. Carolina led the NFC in rushing and by a pretty wide margin. Dallas was third in the NFC in rushing, and Green Bay was fifth. The Packers also ran more productively - scoring 20 TD with their running game versus 14 for the Cowboys. Dallas did also pass for slightly more yardage than the Packers last season (268 YPG versus 261), but again the Packers were more productive, scoring 30 TD to the Cowboys' 26. The Packer offensive line was certainly a weakness on the team last year, but has improved over the offseason. The Cowboy offensive line has gotten older and weaker in the offseason. Flozell may have led the league in false starts, but he was still a better blocker than Barron or Free.

2) Miles Austin had a great season last year - but comparing stat lines with Jennings is a little deceiving. Miles Austin had more catches and yards than his next two wide receivers (Williams and Crayton) combined. Jennings and Driver had book-end seasons, both with 68-70 catches and over 1,100 yards. Just because Aaron Rodgers spread his touchdowns around (5 players with at least 4 TD passes) while Austin caught 42% of the TDs Romo threw last year doesn't make Austin a better player. And if Roy Williams (38 catches, 600 yards) is in his prime, I would hate to see him when he is on the decline like Driver. Like I said, Dallas has depth at running back but it's all injury prone. Ryan Grant has been a rock in the starting lineup for the last 3 years and has been ultra consistent. The Packer offense is the first offense in NFL history to post back-to-back seasons with a 4,000 yard passer, a 1,200 yard rusher, and two 1,000 yard receivers. I give Dallas the edge at tight end, but not by much.

3) Defense. Since Green Bay's defense is so terrible, let me ask why the Cowboys couldn't score on them last year until they got a garbage time touchdown in the last minute of a 17-0 game? Yes, the Vikings offense did torch the Packers' defense last year. The only difference is that the Packer offense actually scored a few points themselves in those games and didn't lay down and die like the Cowboys did in the playoffs.


That's the real knock on Dallas, isn't it? Million dollar talent with a ten cent heart? The Cowboys got down 17-3 to the Vikings and rolled over and died. The Packers got down 14-0 against the Cardinals and rallied back to send the game into overtime. I suppose at the end of the day, a loss is a loss - but I don't know how Dallas fans can be brimming with confidence and calling themselves the favorites after getting absolutely brutalized in the playoffs.

This is just great. RSconn5 got served!

RSConn5
08-03-2010, 09:14 PM
My bad i was looking at the playoff statistics for rushing yards.. Dallas got dominated by what i thought was the best team in football last year no doubt about it but i don't think they gave up. In the end now that Favre retired i think the Packers win their division hands down and Dallas should win theirs as well. The Packers and Cowboys are my picks to play in the NFC Championship now. Hopefully that is what happens and we can see the answer to this question on the field.

Pruitt
08-03-2010, 09:18 PM
I think the Cowboys will always get extra attention. However, they look solid on offense and defense, so they should get a certain amount of love.

But jeez - I hate them.

Tinindian
08-03-2010, 09:27 PM
All I need to know about the Cowboys is one name. Wade Phillips. As long as he is the Cowboys head coach, they aren't winning a Superbowl. Period.

RSConn5
08-03-2010, 09:29 PM
Whats the beef with the Cowboys??? I understand if you're a Giants, Eagles, or Redskins fan but what has Dallas ever done to Cleveland???

Cris Collinsworth
08-03-2010, 09:30 PM
Yeah, the Colts, Patriots, and Steelers are kind of flying under the radar right now. Kind of weird...

That is a very good point. Be careful when the best are not being talked about. The only time to pick against the Steelers is after they win a Super Bowl. Patriots have had a lot of picks lately. Guys who are unknowns now won't be for long. Watch the Pats TEs become stars this year. Colts should be the favorite in the AFC. They should have gone undefeated and but for an onside kick, theymay have finished with a blowout win in the Super Bowl. If Manning scores on that first drive of the second half, what do you think the final score is?

Pruitt
08-03-2010, 11:19 PM
Whats the beef with the Cowboys??? I understand if you're a Giants, Eagles, or Redskins fan but what has Dallas ever done to Cleveland???

Three things:

1) Too much hype
2) When I was a kid, every other jackass at my school became a Cowboys fan - because they were winning. So to me, they will always be a frontrunner's team. (Unless you're from the Dallas area of course)
3) My brother in law loves them

RSConn5
08-03-2010, 11:28 PM
Three things:

1) Too much hype
2) When I was a kid, every other jackass at my school became a Cowboys fan - because they were winning. So to me, they will always be a frontrunner's team. (Unless you're from the Dallas area of course)
3) My brother in law loves them

Haha ok good enough for me. And i'm no front runner i live 30 minutes from the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

FLPackerFan
08-04-2010, 12:33 AM
Dallas will not win a Super Bowl with Wade Phillips. He is too laid back and he can't stand up to Jerry Jones. Jimmy Johnson won there because he told Jerry to stay out of the football moves. Jerry would not and Jimmy left. Parcells came in and built the team, Jerry had to challenge Parcells and make his calls. Parcells did not want TO. Parcells left. Owners who like to bud in and run the team where the coach is always looking over their shoulder do not win championships.Look at the Yankees for example. When Steinbrenner was changing managers, calling the dugout, signing everyone possible in the 80s and early 90s they did not win. When he took a backseat and let the personal people and the manager manage, they won a bunch of World series Titles. Jerry Jones has not learned that at all. Jerry will be at the Super Bowl, but he will be watching another team from his private box.

kotar44
08-04-2010, 12:33 AM
A football fan wondering why the Cowboys are getting so much hype? Now that's funny. I do have a theory that Jerruh owns a piece of ESPN, or has pics of Berman in a compromising position...how else can you explain the ubiquitous presence of Ed Werder on TV? Really, the Cowboys have won 1 playoff game in over a decade, but they bring heat, sell tickets, and get ratings, so the wins and losses are almost irrelevant. But they do have a really good D, and great talent at the skill positions, but Romo has alot of Danny White in him, so I'd be surprised if they get over any humps any time soon.

GoBigOrGoHome
08-04-2010, 12:40 AM
Reasons the Cowboys are better than the Packers:
Driver is on the decline and Roy Williams is still in his prime.

Son, go wash your mouth out with soap.

Cris Collinsworth
08-04-2010, 12:41 AM
I think a lot of people liked the Packers, but had trouble picking between the Vikings and the Pack in the North. The Saints are no fun to pick because they are defending champs. The West is not going to produce a champion unless they really surprise. The rest of the East made major changes. Thus, the Cowboys win by default.

Jeffrey
08-04-2010, 12:47 AM
Experience goes a long way come playoff time...while Phillips/romo been getting trounced they still inching closer and seeing what it takes. As much as everyone over Rodgers and the pack (and let's be honest, pack not "flying under the radar", everyone who knows anything has them at top tier of NFC) I see them taking a step back before taking two more forward. One thing you can say bout the cowboys is they are used to the pressure of expectations...can the pack handle a season where a deep playoff run is expected? We shall see

GBPKS
08-04-2010, 09:27 AM
I think a lot of people liked the Packers, but had trouble picking between the Vikings and the Pack in the North. The Saints are no fun to pick because they are defending champs. The West is not going to produce a champion unless they really surprise. The rest of the East made major changes. Thus, the Cowboys win by default.

If the NFC North was tough to pick between Green Bay and Minnesota, then what is the NFC East? The NFC East is year-in, year-out the most competitive division in football and this year will be no different. The Giants' defense took a little vacation at the end of last season, but they will be back strong and they swept the Cowboys last year. The Eagles lost McNabb, but Kevin Kolb could step in and take advantage of their weapons and they still can wreak havoc on defense, and the Redskins should be improved with the additions of McNabb and Shanahan.

Pruitt
08-04-2010, 09:31 AM
Haha ok good enough for me. And i'm no front runner i live 30 minutes from the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

Be thankful you weren't born in Parma.

souza
08-04-2010, 11:22 AM
GBPKS: Read through your comments and almost completely agreed with your assessment/insight of the situation. Very well done. As a Vikings fan in Dallas Ive seen plenty of the Pack and Cowboys and have zero reason to favor either team in my opinions... I think in terms of talent, the Giants, Saints, Vikings, Packers, and Cowboys are very similar.

Specifically between the Pack and Cowboys, here are my position picks... If you would like an in-depth explanation of any of my reasoning, I had these written out yesterday but my cpu messed up and I dont want to redo it but would happily address my arguments...Most of the positions are just slight edge either way... The Cowboys just have more upside and raw speed/talent (primarily on defense) but this "potential" seems to be the same story each year. Ultimately, the teams have combined to win 2 playoff games the last 5 seasons so each ardent fan base has been energized into believing 2010 could be their year. Both teams are fully capable of a run to the Super Bowl, period, and the preseason hype is something to take with a grain of salt regardless.

QB: GB
RB: DAL
WR: DAL
TE: DAL
OL: DAL
DL: DAL
LB: GB (as a unit, Ware is easily the best player off the edge in the NFL)
CB: PUSH
S: GB
K: GB
Head Coach: GB

GBPKS
08-04-2010, 11:44 AM
GBPKS: Read through your comments and almost completely agreed with your assessment/insight of the situation. Very well done. As a Vikings fan in Dallas Ive seen plenty of the Pack and Cowboys and have zero reason to favor either team in my opinions... I think in terms of talent, the Giants, Saints, Vikings, Packers, and Cowboys are very similar.

Specifically between the Pack and Cowboys, here are my position picks... If you would like an in-depth explanation of any of my reasoning, I had these written out yesterday but my cpu messed up and I dont want to redo it but would happily address my arguments...Most of the positions are just slight edge either way... The Cowboys just have more upside and raw speed/talent (primarily on defense) but this "potential" seems to be the same story each year. Ultimately, the teams have combined to win 2 playoff games the last 5 seasons so each ardent fan base has been energized into believing 2010 could be their year. Both teams are fully capable of a run to the Super Bowl, period, and the preseason hype is something to take with a grain of salt regardless.

QB: GB
RB: DAL
WR: DAL
TE: DAL
OL: DAL
DL: DAL
LB: GB (as a unit, Ware is easily the best player off the edge in the NFL)
CB: PUSH
S: GB
K: GB
Head Coach: GB

I disagree with some of your assessments but then again I'm biased.

I understand the decision to give RB to Dallas because of their three-headed monster and the Packers' lack of a proven option behind Ryan Grant. I completely disagree with you at wide receiver, though. Maybe if you put the WR & TE positions together, I could see it being a push, but otherwise I think the Jennings/Driver combo is better than any receiver Dallas can pair with Miles Austin unless Dez Bryant turns out to be a really special player.

I can't argue with TE or OL - I like what the Packers are doing there, but Dallas has more proven veteran players.

I think the front seven overall are pretty similar, but if you want to break it up I have no real problems there.

I think the Packers have the edge at corner, but I guess that is dependent on whether Al Harris can play and what they can do at nickel.

souza
08-04-2010, 12:30 PM
I would give you a push at WR for the time being... Miles Austin is not a one-hit wonder, he is absolutely the real deal and I think will continue to prove to be as good as or better than Jennings. Maybe not this season, but in the near future, Bryant/Austin will be the best wr tandem in the NFL, Ive seen enough of Bryant to believe he is going to be that special of a player. I hate roy williams. Crayton and Jones are probably a wash.

RBs- Even beyond the greater versatility and depth of the Dallas backfield, I'd take Felix Jones straight up over Ryan Grant (Ive never been that big of fan). I may be in the minority and am well aware of Ryan Grants production, success last season but Jones is electric and is finally going to be given the reins this season, a move long overdue. Like Grant, staying healthy remains a considerable concern for Jones.

Last year, Woodson's performance trumped all, but in their current states Ill stick with a push at CB, I think Mike Jenkins is as good as any NFC corner to enter the league in the last few years, a slight edge to GB would be acceptable because they possess a little bit more depth at the position

Basically we're on the same page, all the differences are pretty much nitpicking and dependent on what you personally value... In the end, the whole point is that the difference in talent between the two teams is pretty insignifcant.