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    Top 10/Bottom 5 - Week 5!

    OK. Take your 10/5 as gospel. That divides the NFL into 3 parts, 10/17/5

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    Top 10/Bottom 5 - Week 5!

    I think this is definitely a case where we need more information for all the spots after 5.
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    darvon

    Who Should Replace Dennis Allen in Oakland?

    FInally someone will coach Oakland that can motivate people and get things done.


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    Who Should Replace Dennis Allen in Oakland?

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    Hoser

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  • Contributors


    Cris Collinsworth

    Former Pro Bowl wide receiver for the Cincinnati Bengals and Emmy-winning analyst from Sunday Night Football and Inside the NFL.
    Dave Lapham
    Has called game for the Bengals radio network for 25 years. Analyst for Big 12 games on Fox Sports Net. Played 10 years in the NFL for the Cincinnati Bengals.
    Turk Schonert
    NFL quarterback for 10 years with the Bengals and Falcons. Has served as quarterback coach for the Buccaneers, Bills, Panthers, Giants and Saints and Offensive Coordinator for the Bills.
    Phil McConkey
    Played 6 years in the NFL as a WR, punt returner and kick returner for the Giants, Packers, Cardinals and Chargers. Played college football at the Naval Academy and served in the U.S. Navy before joining the NFL. Best remembered for his oustanding game in Super Bowl XXI.
    Josina Anderson
    Josina "JoJo" Anderson is contributing reporter on Showtime's Inside the NFL and is a weekend co-anchor/reporter/producer for FOX 31 Sports in Denver, Colorado. Josina produces the nightly sportscasts and covers the Denver Broncos, Denver Nuggets, Colorado Avalanche, and the Colorado Rockies.
    Jerry Jones
    NFL Draft Expert, has published the acclaimed Drugstore List since 1978.
    Russell S Baxter
    Researcher, writer and editor covering the NFL for over 30 years.
    Andy Freeland
    Statistician and researcher for NBC's Sunday Night Football.
  • Do Not Count Tim Tebow Out Based on Practice, Wait Until the Fist Fight Starts

    One thing I have learned over the years is that there are a lot of guys who look great in practice. Every year with the Bengals they would bring in guys that were freakish athletes for camp. Every year I found myself saying, "how am I going to beat THAT GUY out?" Then we put on the pads and started hitting. Amazing what happens to most of these freaks when their body is put in harms way. They usually don't run 4.3 anymore, and their vertical goes from 40 inches to 2. Guys that could bench press 400 pounds suddenly can no longer lift their arms above their head reaching for a ball. It happens every year.

    The flip side of that is every year there are guys who are a joke in shorts but turn into animals when the pads go on. I am coaching the local high school team (I thought for sure the lockout was going to last longer) and it is amazing how much my opinion of the guys on our team has changed since we started hitting. Football is strange game. It tests your courage every day. You have to convince your brain how much you enjoy getting hit. No kidding. I really believed that the worst thing that I could do to a defense was take a big hit and pop right up. While I may not have been able to catch my breath or walk a straight line back to the huddle, I promised myself that I would never give those jerks the satisfaction of knowing that.

    Which brings me to Tim Tebow. There is nothing about him that would lead you to believe he was worthy of being a first round pick unless you have met him and watched him in person. Almost every Gator that I know believes he is the single most competitive player in the history of the University of Florida. He would wrestle offensive linemen, kick everyone's tail in the weight room, and when the game was on the line, he would find a way to beat you. I went to the National Championship Game against Oklahoma and one of the Oklahoma players ran up to Tebow in pregame and just started screaming and pointing at him. Tebow barely reacted, but I turned to the guy next to me and said, "it is over, the Gators are a lock." Tebow proceeded to WILL the Gators to the Championship in a way that can't really be explained. Will Tim Tebow be a great NFL QB? I don't know. But I do know this, anybody who dismisses Tim Tebow because Kyle Orton throws the ball better in practice, had better wait until the fist fight starts. Then, and only then, will I start judging Tim Tebow's performance.

    Comments 54 Comments
    1. RSConn5's Avatar
      People can throw Orton's numbers at me all they want. All I know is that teams quarterbacked by Kyle Orton don't win a whole lot of football games. Denver is making a huge mistake if they don't play Tebow. I don't know if he is the future of that franchise or not but I know that Orton definitely is not. They owe it to the fans to find out if this guy is for real after the whole Josh McDaniels debacle when they lost Cutler. If Tebow is good, then you have yourself a franchise QB to build around. If he is awful, then you have Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley waiting to be drafted next year.

      Personally, I think Tebow will be great. He is the single greatest college football player I have ever seen. People can argue about his mechanics, his accuracy, Florida's spread offense, and anything else they want and I'll still believe he is going to be great. He has that "it" factor that is too difficult to explain.
    1. Cris Collinsworth's Avatar
      It is hard for me to see people so excited about Cam Newton and down on Tebow. If that style is coming of age in the NFL, they are equal players. If it doesn't work in the NFL, then we will know it soon enough. I just think it is way too early to pass judgment on either of them. We may not know for 5 years.
    1. darvon's Avatar
      I actually believe the whole controversy is without merit. I think in the course of the year both players will get their chances and we can just judge from results.

      The only real decision is if Denver decides to trade Orton and then figures out it is a mistake in December. But it won't be a monumental mistake. Orton has had significant chances and most signs point to Journeyman.

      Just think Denver, if Orton is traded and Tebow flames out, next year you could have..........


      ...Favre.
    1. dandrea's Avatar
      It's a risk worth taking, just not one that I would take if i were in an NFL front office. History points to failure for these types of hybrid QBs. Vick is the one I can remember with longevity/success...and he's a much better passer than Tebow. And there are maybe 3-5 players in the history of the league with Vick's level of athleticism.

      BUT, what is the ceiling here with Tebow? Do we think he is going to develop into a consistent enough passer? We know he can run the ball, we know he can gut out some plays, we know he is a tremendous leader....but, and i dont care if its this season or 2015, will he be able to make the 4Q throw on 3rd and 8 to move the chains? Or, do you have to continually develop gimmicky plays, and gimmicky systems?

      I commend them for taking the chance, because you dont win without impact leaders at that position...but im afraid theyre looking at several years worth of growing pains. The game is too fast to learn how to play QB at this level.
    1. Dave Lapham's Avatar
      I heard Tebow lifted with the linemen and ran sprints wih the WRs and RBs. Sounds like Superman. Some guys are definitely gamers and he has proven to be one his entire sports career. Something even more important... a winner. Intangibles are important, but that is the most important one, believing every time you go out on the field you will come off of it a winner.
    1. dandrea's Avatar
      I heard Peyton Manning and Tom Brady spend their time in the film room and running the same routes with WRs until they can make the throws in their sleep.

      I heard Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers cant bench 300 or beat 80% of their teammates in a race.

      Will and heart can never be underestimated in sports...but neither can natural ability. there is nothing natural about Tebow's ability to play (NFL) Quarterback. And if there is one position in all of sports that you cant will your way into being successful, its QB.
    1. RSConn5's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by dandrea View Post

      Will and heart can never be underestimated in sports...but neither can natural ability. there is nothing natural about Tebow's ability to play (NFL) Quarterback. And if there is one position in all of sports that you cant will your way into being successful, its QB.
      I disagree. People have been telling this kid he can't play QB his entire life. They have been wrong every single time. This time will be no different.
    1. wxwax's Avatar
      Storm in a tea cup.

      All Denver is saying is that Orton is the safer choice *this season.*

      What's happened in the last week isn't the final word on Tebow's future in the NFL. Like everything to do with Tebow, it's been blown out of proportion.
    1. nonamesleft's Avatar
      Would the team support starting Tebow over Orton when they had been watching them in the red jerseys for over a month? It is not like they play a position with a lot of contact to weed out the workout warriors from the football players. The players know Orton is an average to above average staring QB and Tebow is an unknown who doesn't impress in practice. Will players enter the field feeling Orton gives them a better chance to win?
    1. RSConn5's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by nonamesleft View Post
      Would the team support starting Tebow over Orton when they had been watching them in the red jerseys for over a month? It is not like they play a position with a lot of contact to weed out the workout warriors from the football players. The players know Orton is an average to above average staring QB and Tebow is an unknown who doesn't impress in practice. Will players enter the field feeling Orton gives them a better chance to win?
      But does Orton give them a better chance to win? The team was 3-10 last year in games he started. 1-2 with Tebow. Regardless of who starts, this isn't a very good team that is looking at a ceiling of probably around 6 wins and a top 10 pick in next years drafts. If they go will Orton all year, and then a guy like Matt Barkley falls to them in the draft, how can they pull the trigger on him without fully knowing what they have in Tebow?
    1. iwatt's Avatar
      Tebow wins. It's all he ever does. I don't expect pro-bowl numbers from him, but if somebody can will them forward when things look grim, it's Tebow.
    1. Ragar's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by iwatt View Post
      Tebow wins. It's all he ever does. I don't expect pro-bowl numbers from him, but if somebody can will them forward when things look grim, it's Tebow.
      This is giving the impression of people attempting ot fit a square peg in a round hole. If you expect Tim Tebow to be like Rodgers, Rivers, Brady, etc. then you are going ot make him fail. But give him a play set like the titans did with Young, with other options in it, and he can be succesful. He may not make pro-bowls, but he will win games.
    1. Ripperlicious's Avatar
      Some guys just bring out the best in their teammates. Tebow has always been "that" guy. Technically it's hard for me to see the NFL QB in him, but there's no way I would wager against him being successful. I'd go to battle with him anyday of the week.
    1. Colts01's Avatar
      Merril Hoge claims Tebow has the skill set of a 6th or 7th round player essentially saying Tebow does not has the skill set to be a successful NFL QB.Hoge himself t was a 10th round draft pick who played for eight years so Im suprised he is such a Tebow hater.Orton gets the worst in this deal though,there is a rock,a hard place,and Orton....
    1. Cris Collinsworth's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by nonamesleft View Post
      Would the team support starting Tebow over Orton when they had been watching them in the red jerseys for over a month? It is not like they play a position with a lot of contact to weed out the workout warriors from the football players. The players know Orton is an average to above average staring QB and Tebow is an unknown who doesn't impress in practice. Will players enter the field feeling Orton gives them a better chance to win?
      I guess that is my point. Everybody says how much better Orton is in practice......PRACTICE....where have I heard that before? Can we at least watch a few pre-season games before I have to pass judgement?
    1. Cris Collinsworth's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by Colts01 View Post
      Merril Hoge claims Tebow has the skill set of a 6th or 7th round player essentially saying Tebow does not has the skill set to be a sucsessful NFL QB.Hoge himself t was a 10th round draft pick who played for eight years so Im suprised he is such a Tebow hater.Orton gets the worst in this deal though,there is a rock,a hard place,and Orton....
      As a pure passer Merril is probably right. That is the debate. As a pure passer Joe Montana was a 3rd rounder. But, some guys just win. When I first saw Kurt Warner throw in person I thought he was hurt. Chad Pennington couldn't throw harder than I could. Some guys can succeed on more than pure ability.
    1. Trumpetbdw's Avatar
      I'm all in on Tebow. Love the guy, and think he'll be a winner. He probably does have to pretty up that motion, but he looks an awful lot like a left-handed, more athletic version of Bernie Kosar. He didn't have great stats, and was the ugliest looking QB I've ever seen throwing the ball, but he did get Cleveland to 5 straight playoff appearances, and 3 AFC title games in 4 seasons from 1986-1989, which happens to be (WAIT, I CAN FEEL IT COMING. DON'T GO THERE! I CAN'T STOP MYSELF!!!) the same 4 consecutive seasons that the prettiest thrower of all-time, Dan Marino, couldn't even squeeze his team into the playoffs.

      (AAAAHHHHH, THAT WAS A MISTAKE. HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!)

      And Tebow adds an extra element that Kosar didn't have in his running ability. Yes, Tebow can win, and I think he can win as soon as this year. The Broncos are the one team that I think will sneak up and surprise everyone, but I think they need Tebow to make it happen.

      If they want to look good in winning 5 or 6 games, then Kyle Orton is your guy. If they want to grind out 8-10 wins, and have a shot at the division, then put the ball in Tebow's hands and let everything else fall into place.
    1. darvon's Avatar
      Didn't Tebow already play last year? How did those games go?
    1. Polishguy00's Avatar
      I still think he is a H-back or even an OLB. If him being a successful QB can make sure he never does another underwear ad, then I am all for it.

      There is no doubt that the guy is an incredible athlete with tons of heart and tons of actual talent. I just don't feel that maximization of his heart and skills is anything better than a 8-8 or 9-7 QB. I see the balls that float out of his hand and I see the community batting cage baseball pitching machine mechanics. My feelings are based on exactly how hard it is to be a QB in (cue Jaws here) "The National Football League."

      I just see him as a more explosive version of Jim Kleinsasser with enough QB skill that you could run some NFL legal versions of A-11 plays. That, and he is a great goal line back.

      Hey, I hope he is decent enough just so Josina can maintain her sanity.
    1. RSConn5's Avatar
      Quote Originally Posted by darvon View Post
      Didn't Tebow already play last year? How did those games go?
      He played pretty well considering it was his 1st 3 starts.

      @ Oak- 8-16, 138 yds 1 TD and 78 rush yds, 1 TD....loss
      vs. Hou- 16-29 308 yards 1 TD, 1 INT and had 27 rush yds, 1 TD....win
      vs. SD- 16-36 205 yds 2 TD, 2 INT and 94 rush yds 1 TD....loss

      That game against Houston was one of the best games all year. Great comeback.