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Thread: 6 Degrees of Ryan Braun

  1. #51
       
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    Guys will always Chase the paper. I can't blame them for that.. just say no comment when your hand is slammed in the cookie jar. As far as the farse that is the bbwa, these guys should be drug into the street and caned. Peds weren't against the rules. The mcguires and clemens and bonds of the world followed the rules. Since when are they holier than thou to adjudicate their morals about something the organization they somewhat represent didn't feel necessary to make illegal?
    Two things.

    1) The drugs in question were illegal in the US. Not "legal under a Doctors care". Just flat illegal.

    2) I think that there was a vague clause in the old CBA that talked about not using drugs that were illegal in the US, without spelling it out. Was there that clause? You baseball guys, what was in the CBA about illegal drugs in the mid 90s?

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    Going back to the OP, how does this relate to the NFL?

    1) Roger aint never going to let appeals go to an independant board.
    2) Roger aint never going to use WADA.
    3) NFLPA is going to go very slowly on HGH.
    4) In all future planning assume everything is public. In fact, you should just put all tests on the NFLPA.com website and sell advertising, with proceeds going to a Vets Medicine fund.

  3. #53
       
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    "This drug test was brought to you by Taco Bell. We hope your results are better than we are in relation to your stomach."

    FWIW, my answer to the baseball question above: I do not have time to look it up, but if I remember correctly; the CBA itself only mentioned that players could be suspended for terms determined by the commissioner for arrests and other violations of law. The teams had similar language in their player contracts. In the past, usually the teams administered fines and suspensions of their own players (Steve Howe, for example). The commissioner could step in, but teams usually handled things in house. Teams had the right to test players after a problem was known. This also happened with Howe. Dwight Gooden's problems occurred after he fought with police during an arrest in Tampa during 1986. The way I read it, players who took PEDs up until the time testing was implemented were in violation of their contracts and federal law.
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  4. #54
       
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    I think it goes without saying that the use of PEDs in the NFL is probably widespread. The game rewards their use far more than does baseball, and we've seen how much they can warp baseball stats.

    I'm not surprised the NFL is being cautious in how it approaches testing. It has a lot to lose.

  5. #55
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesteelnation1 View Post
    As far as the farse that is the bbwa, these guys should be drug into the street and caned. Peds weren't against the rules. The mcguires and clemens and bonds of the world followed the rules. Since when are they holier than thou to adjudicate their morals about something the organization they somewhat represent didn't feel necessary to make illegal?

    I agree, Mike.

    First, the writers had to be deaf, dumb and blind to not know what was going on in the 90's.

    Then, when someone finally decides to write about it, it's an AP writer who sees a perfectly legal, over-the-counter supplement in Mark McGuire's locker and makes a scandal out of it. That part really annoyed me.

  6. #56
       
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    Looks like MLB and the company they use to collect the samples don't understand each others policies.

    http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=7625905

    The collection companies standard protocol is as follows: if its too late after collecting a sample for the sample to actually ship immediately, the collector is supposed to secure the sample until it can be shipped immediately.

    Seems to me Mr brauns urine was in a much safer environment to avoid tampering, than a bustling Fed ex depot..

    And all of this I find to be appalling to my common sense, as far as braun trumpeting his "innocence"!! Whether the pee was in this guys office basement, or sitting in a shipping container at the fed ex facility it would have arrived at the lab at the same time. With all 3 seals intact!!! It's a positive test on a non degraded sample either way.

    @Darvon as far as the NFL goes, and if there will ever be hgh testing.. I won't say never, but it won't be anytime soon. Right now there's posturing and the league and the players union are engaged in a cute little do-si-do to make us believe they want that, but I don't think they possibly could. If they did it would have written into the cba in an iron clad manner. The cba is a 300+ page document, so what's another 10 pages of legalese to hammer out those details?

    The owners suspect exactly what we suspect, and I'd venture to say the players know- Peds are used by a large portion of the player populace. No one wanted to upset the Apple cart, and keep those billions from rolling in. In the 20+ yrs I've followed the game closely the players have gotten mammoth, all the while getting faster and stronger. This is the case at every position. Once upon a time Anthony munoz was the best left tackle in the game. One of the best ever to play the position. His highest weight was around 275. He would be a blocking tight end these days. And he didnt retire that long ago.

    Some of this increase can be attributed to the game being more popular than ever, more kids playing it, and the advances in training techniques. Not enough to account for the watershed change in player measurables since hgh was introduced. Why not take it? There's no long term proof its harmful in any way. Id venture to say there might not be any, seeing as doctors prescribe it regularly to promote the rehab process for us normal joes who have arthroscopic surgery.

    The NFL doesn't want to confront the monster hiding in the closet, just like MLB didn't in the 90's. They don't want to kill the golden goose, just like MLB didnt. At least the NFL spells out its illegal, even without being able to test for it.
    Last edited by mikesteelnation1; 02-29-2012 at 12:53 AM.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

  7. #57
       
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    Even more egg on the leagues face... I don't read baseball news. Saw the link on ESPN I provided in my prior post on the main page and read it because we've been discussing it here. Then I log onto the Pittsburgh post gazette and see where one of the guys who posts op ed pieces on the steelers normally, posted an interesting view on this situation. All his articles show in the top left corner of the steelers main page, or I would have never seen it. Here's how the article begins...

    " The 2012 Major League Baseball season doesn't start for another four weeks, but the season's first bonehead play is already in the books.

    Yeah, and the Pirates haven't played an exhibition game yet.

    The first inexplicably stupid idea came from the commissioner's office, an ever reliable source, where vice president for labor relations Rob Manfred said officially that baseball "vehemently disagrees" with the arbitrator's ruling on Ryan Braun.

    Braun, should you already have lost interest, last week became the first big league player to appeal successfully a positive drug test, a distinction apparently too trivial for the commissioner's office.

    So, they decided to bestow something more significant --beginning April, Ryan Braun of the Milwaukee Brewers will be the first person to play in the big leagues having been effectively fingered as a drug cheat by the lords of the game"

    That's a pretty significant statement... And a pretty strong opinion. I don't think he's a bbwaa guy. If a normal writer feels this, given the vitriol and scarlet letter status these bbwaa guys have given other Ped users who didn't break the rules, what will be their reaction to this travesty?

    I don't read baseball stuff, so there might be tons of ugly stuff out there already...

    Here's the rest of the article...

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12060/1213260-150.stm
    Last edited by mikesteelnation1; 02-29-2012 at 02:47 AM.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

  8. #58
       
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    Remember that in his Press Conference Braun said to the Public (you and me):

    "There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way the entire thing works, that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened," Braun said.
    The Collector (which would make a great name for the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on this) released his story of what happened:

    Pleasant Prairie - The man who collected Ryan Braun's urine sample released a statement Tuesday:

    "On February 24th, Ryan Braun stated during his press conference that "there were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened." Shortly thereafter, someone who had intimate knowledge of the facts of this case released my name to the media. I am issuing this statement to set the record straight.

    "I am a 1983 graduate of the University of Wisconsin and have received Master Degrees from the University of North Carolina and Loyola University of Chicago. My full-time job is the director of rehabilitation services at a health care facility. In the past, I have worked as a teacher and an athletic trainer, including performing volunteer work with Olympic athletes. I am a member of both the National Athletic Trainers' Association and the Wisconsin Athletic Trainers' Association.

    "I have been a drug collector for Comprehensive Drug Testing since 2005 and have been performing collections for Major League Baseball's Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program since that time. I have performed over 600 collections for MLB and also have performed collections for other professional sports leagues. I have performed post-season collections for MLB in four separate seasons involving five different clubs.

    "On October 1, 2011, I collected samples from Mr. Braun and two other players. The CDT collection team for that day, in addition to me, included three chaperones and a CDT coordinator. One of the chaperones was my son, Anthony. Chaperones do not have any role in the actual collection process, but rather escort the player to the collection area.

    "I followed the same procedure in collecting Mr. Braun's sample as I did in the hundreds of other samples I collected under the Program. I sealed the bottles containing Mr. Braun's A and B samples with specially-numbered, tamper-resistant seals, and Mr. Braun signed a form certifying, among other things, that the specimens were capped and sealed in his presence and that the specimen identification numbers on the top of the form matched those on the seals.

    "I placed the two bottles containing Mr. Braun's samples in a plastic bag and sealed the bag. I then placed the sealed bag in a standard cardboard Specimen Box which I also sealed with a tamper-resistant, correspondingly-numbered seal placed over the box opening. I then placed Mr. Braun's Specimen Box, and the Specimen Boxes containing the samples of the two other players, in a Federal Express Clinic Pack. None of the sealed Specimen Boxes identified the players. I completed my collections at Miller Park at approximately 5:00 p.m. Given the lateness of the hour that I completed my collections, there was no FedEx office located within 50 miles of Miller Park that would ship packages that day or Sunday.

    "Therefore, the earliest that the specimens could be shipped was Monday, October 3. In that circumstance, CDT has instructed collectors since I began in 2005 that they should safeguard the samples in their homes until FedEx is able to immediately ship the sample to the laboratory, rather than having the samples sit for one day or more at a local FedEx office. The protocol has been in place since 2005 when I started with CDT and there have been other occasions when I have had to store samples in my home for at least one day, all without incident.

    "The FedEx Clinic Pack containing Mr. Braun's samples never left my custody. Consistent with CDT's instructions, I brought the FedEx Clinic Pack containing the samples to my home. Immediately upon arriving home, I placed the FedEx Clinic Pack in a Rubbermaid container in my office which is located in my basement. My basement office is sufficiently cool to store urine samples. No one other than my wife was in my home during the period in which the samples were stored. The sealed Specimen Boxes were not removed from the FedEx Clinic Pack during the entire period in which they were in my home. On Monday, October 3, I delivered the FedEx Clinic Pack containing Mr. Braun's Specimen Box to a FedEx office for delivery to the laboratory on Tuesday, October 4. At no point did I tamper in any way with the samples. It is my understanding that the samples were received at the laboratory with all tamper-resistant seals intact.

    "This situation has caused great emotional distress for me and my family. I have worked hard my entire life, have performed my job duties with integrity and professionalism, and have done so with respect to this matter and all other collections in which I have participated. Neither I nor members of my family will make any further public comments on this matter. I request that members of the media, and baseball fans, whatever their views on this matter, respect our privacy. And I would like to sincerely thank my family and friends for their overwhelming support through this difficult time. Any future inquiries should be directed to my attorney Boyd Johnson of Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP."
    Last edited by darvon; 02-29-2012 at 11:49 AM.

  9. #59
       
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    BTW Here is study showing what happens to T/E ratios for non refridgerated storage for 5 days.

    MEDICAL STUDY

    For 20C (room temp) for 5 days hardly any change, and some of it downwards.

    For 37C for 5 days, some upward change of about 5-15%.


    And no study I could find ever claimed to have natural Testosterone transmute into Synth, under any storage conditions.

    I don't think you actually could, short of nuclear bombardment.

  10. #60
       
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    He's coming for your urine....

    ...and he's going to keep it all weekend.



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