Luck vs Griffin, who SHOULD be #1 overall?

[Trumpetbdw]

He looked crazy rattled every game this year the script couldn't be followed.

The Oregon game is the best example of this.

[mikesteelnation1]

That's where the divide is. A lot of people, myself definitely included, have trouble accepting the fact that someone else would believe Jay Cutler and Matt Schaub are more important to the success of their team than Vince Wilfork and Haloti Ngata are.

Perhaps a poor choice of guys to compare kaba. Cutler and schaub are better than average guys, they are not elite. Ngata and wilfork are elite.

Add to that wilfork being elite only kept new England from ranking #32 in defense, by one spot. I'd venture a guess that either Cutler or schaub would drop them a few more than one spot in offense if they replaced Brady.

I'm always picking the similarly rated qb prospect over a nt, every time and twice on Sunday with a similar need at both positions.. Add to that the bust rate for highly picked nt's is about the same as qbs, and I'm going with the guy who holds the ball half the snaps. You don't win a lombardi without an elite qb, sans a very few times since free agency began. Elite nts dont hold the same sway..

[packa7x]

A whole lot of "sandlot" qb play happening. A hell of a lot more sandlot than scripted timing plays that worked, regularly. They became sandlot because the line sucks, and arians doesn't draw up the short timing stuff to negate that. He didn't even do that when Ben could barely walk and the o line that sucked to begin with was in tatters, with all those injuries. Arians does what he does, he doesn't adjust for things.

Mike, how about the adjustment period for RGIII taking snaps from under center? If Cam Newton is any indication, teams can shut down the sandlot stuff enough and force him to throw bad balls.

[packa7x]

And he can't adequately "hit the high notes" that arians scheme is predicated on (doesn't have the arm).

Guess the 70 yard throw in 20 MPH wind at his pro day doesn't count.

[packa7x]

Perhaps a poor choice of guys to compare kaba. Cutler and schaub are better than average guys, they are not elite. Ngata and wilfork are elite.

Add to that wilfork being elite only kept new England from ranking #32 in defense, by one spot. I'd venture a guess that either Cutler or schaub would drop them a few more than one spot in offense if they replaced Brady.

I'm always picking the similarly rated qb prospect over a nt, every time and twice on Sunday with a similar need at both positions.. Add to that the bust rate for highly picked nt's is about the same as qbs, and I'm going with the guy who holds the ball half the snaps. You don't win a lombardi without an elite qb, sans a very few times since free agency began. Elite nts dont hold the same sway..

I think what Kaba is saying is at pick 6 or something...you have a mid-first round QB like cutler or the best DL prospect of the draft. You need both positions equally...do you reach and grab the QB higher than you should? Or do you take a can't-miss DL? The general consensus is that ANY QB rated in the first round or even the second round as we saw last year should be taken over guys who are much more talented because the value of the position is greater.

[Trumpetbdw]

I think what Kaba is saying is at pick 6 or something...you have a mid-first round QB like cutler or the best DL prospect of the draft. You need both positions equally...do you reach and grab the QB higher than you should? Or do you take a can't-miss DL? The general consensus is that ANY QB rated in the first round or even the second round as we saw last year should be taken over guys who are much more talented because the value of the position is greater.

take the best player available. Clearly, if that NT is rated higher on your board than the QB, you're not really sold on the guy anyway.

And I get that some rate Griffin as the "7th best prospect" in this draft, or whatever. I strongly disagree. He's at least 1B in my opinion, and I'd probably put him 1A, especially if I'm the Colts.

And either Griffin's smart, and he's ignoring the Colts' requests for a visit because he realizes Washington is the better situation, or he and the Colts are planning one of the great bait and switches of all time.

[KabaModernFan]

Perhaps a poor choice of guys to compare kaba. Cutler and schaub are better than average guys, they are not elite. Ngata and wilfork are elite.

I'm always picking the similarly rated qb prospect over a nt, every time and twice on Sunday with a similar need at both positions.. Add to that the bust rate for highly picked nt's is about the same as qbs, and I'm going with the guy who holds the ball half the snaps. You don't win a lombardi without an elite qb, sans a very few times since free agency began. Elite nts dont hold the same sway..

No that was exactly the point I was trying to illustrate. I was asking whether or not Wxwax would, in that hypothetical situation, draft a QB with the potential of Cutler/Schaub or draft a DT with the potential of Wilfork/Ngata. I'm pretty sure he understood the question, and he selected the QB.

And you guys keep saying that, but again, we were a handful of plays away from a Flacco vs. Smith QB duel in the Super Bowl! You can win the Super Bowl without an elite QB, it's been proven in the past and it will happen again in the future. And say what you want about elite DTs not holding the same sway, but I watched the AFC Championship like everyone else here did, and Vince Wilfork may have single-handedly won the game for the Patriots.

[wxwax]

I think it's best to wait until you find someone you believe in. But when you do, you must strike swiftly and immediately. If Cleveland was truly sold on RGIII, for example, then they should have taken advantage of their opportunity. I'd say that them hedging their bets and not selling out tells you that they aren't sold, but the Browns recent history suggests that they've played it way too safe when it comes to taking a chance on a potential game-changer at the QB position.

I'm torn between agreeing with you, and wondering whether Holmgren just isn't a top-notch GM, who likes Griffin a lot but got out-maneuvered. I lean toward the latter.

[wxwax]

Except for the wild card game where the Texans won their first playoff game EVER without Schaub and put up 31 points. Give that team Kyle Orton or Jason Campbell and they beat Baltimore IMHO.

The myth of Jason Campbell grows every day! Just shows you the power of one -- one! -- good six-game streak. That's all he's ever had. And I like the lad, not a hater.

[wxwax]

And you guys keep saying that, but again, we were a handful of plays away from a Flacco vs. Smith QB duel in the Super Bowl!

Sure. But we didn't. Horseshoes and hand-grenades. The better QB's won each game.