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Thread: New offseason rules, whats the outcome?

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    New offseason rules, whats the outcome?

    Now the new cba is in full effect for the first time. As such, teams are bound by the contractually agreed to stipulations. There is a STARK difference from the last cba, as it refers to the offseason program. From the frequency to the intensity, everything has been dialed down. A lot!!

    How does this affect on field play? Does it benefit offense or defense? Here's an article that details the stipulations.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ore-offseason/

    IMHO it supremely benefits the offense. It's all walk thrus with no hitting. Offenses get to develop rhythm and pace with no fear of being hit, because they can't. That will lead to sloppy tackling, much like last year.

    This year teams get a full off season program, and we saw how well the offenses did last year with the new rules with little off season. Have we officially said farewell to defensive football? We may well have....

    Defenders can't practice tackling or being physical, nearly as much as offenses can focus on timing and continuity. Last year was a monster offensive year, this year seems to project even more so as one..

    We may read at the end of the season "steelers qb passes for over 5,000yds". Who would have even thought that? I wouldn't have, but its a legit possibility...

    It's now clearly an offensive league. The few remaining great d' s may have a shot at making a difference..
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

  2. There is no question that the basic fundamentals of the game like blocking and tackling will start to suffer. Success is all about repitition. Repitition breads comfort level. Aiming points for defenders to hit are getting smaller and smaller. Practices don't allow for much contact at all. Tackling will be so much tougher to accomplish full go in space on game day with so little repitition of fundamentals. The fans want to see big plays and scoring. They will get their wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesteelnation1 View Post
    Defenders can't practice tackling or being physical, nearly as much as offenses can focus on timing and continuity. Last year was a monster offensive year, this year seems to project even more so as one...
    I'm sorry, that is incorrect. A commonly accepted myth, but flatout wrong. In 2010 NFL teams averaged 352 throughout the entire 16 game season. In 2011 team averaged 355 points throughout the entire season. This equates to a whopping increase of .2 points scored per game per team. In 2010 NFL teams on average amassed 5,379 total offensive yards, and in 2011 they amassed 5,549 yards. It may look like a significant disparity, but again when it's equated once more, you end up with each team averaging only about 10 yards more per game in 2011 than they did in 2010. There were 1,150 touchdowns scored in 2010, and actually only 1,145 touchdowns scored in 2011.

    So the belief that 2011 was "a monster offensive year" is not true whatsoever.
    "Biggest blowout since Andy Reid vs. Skinny jeans" - Colts01

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    Quote Originally Posted by KabaModernFan View Post
    I'm sorry, that is incorrect. A commonly accepted myth, but flatout wrong. In 2010 NFL teams averaged 352 throughout the entire 16 game season. In 2011 team averaged 355 points throughout the entire season. This equates to a whopping increase of .2 points scored per game per team. In 2010 NFL teams on average amassed 5,379 total offensive yards, and in 2011 they amassed 5,549 yards. It may look like a significant disparity, but again when it's equated once more, you end up with each team averaging only about 10 yards more per game in 2011 than they did in 2010. There were 1,150 touchdowns scored in 2010, and actually only 1,145 touchdowns scored in 2011.

    So the belief that 2011 was "a monster offensive year" is not true whatsoever.
    Just a precursor, but this post will be long winded. Had to be to...

    It's only a myth if you use the law of averages to prove what you're saying kaba, which apparently you have. Defensive football was most definitely not as good last year as previous. The averages may say that, but let's look at how many elite defenses there were versus total suck defenses. The peaks and valleys tell the defensive story, not the average. A larger regression to the mean accounts for the close averages. This is without extrapolation for the loss of manning, or the abnormally high number of rook or 2nd year signal callers. Those extrapolations show in the stats in their reversion to the mean.

    An elite defense allows under 5k yards. A garbage defense allows over 6k. There are two watermark data points I will address, '10 vs '11, and pre major rule change vs post major rule changes. The major rule changes began in '09 with the Brady rule, and the defenseless receiver rule. The addition of the spearing/launching rule in '10 and the increased attention to player safety and the increased fines an subsequent suspensions as a result have greatly effected the number of elite defenses, as opposed to garbage defenses. This is before factoring in the new rule about offseason contact. We can assume last year to be similar, since there were no offseason programs. I analyzed '02-'11. A decade of data.

    I know offensive philosophy has changed recently, but the stark differences pre and post rule change speak strongly to how the rules shaped the philosophy and the NFL's embrace of pass first systems.

    In '10 there were 8 elite defenses and 3 garbage defenses. In '11 there were 5 elite defenses and 6 garbage defenses. The only time in a decade where the elite defenses didn't outnumber the junk ones 3:1 or more sans '09 when it was 2:1. Boatloads of regression to the mean. In one year the garbage defenses doubled and the elite defenses almost halved, based on no offseason contact and the new in season contact rules. you're living in myth world if you think the rules had no effect. Most likely for the first time in HISTORY more teams gave up 6k yards than gave up under 5k yards, and most of the garbage defenses made the playoffs!!!!

    This is before I speak about the 7 seasons prior to the rule changes vs the 3 after. It's before we get further and further from live hitting at practice like the new cba states. The further we get from practicing it, the worse it will become. I'll venture to say '11 was the year with the fewest elite defenses and by far the most garbage defenses in the history of the league. I only researched 10 years, but ill bet dollars to donuts there have never been more teams in one season to allow 6k plus yards..

    As far as comparing pre vs post rule change defenses, from '02-'08 there were on average 12 defenses that allowed under 5k yards (one under 4k yards '08 steelers ) and on average 1.85 garbage defenses. Post rule changes there have been 6 elite defenses and 4 garbage defenses.

    The proof in in the pudding kaba, the cumulative rule changes have halved the elite defenses and doubled the garbage defenses. Hence why your averages seem similar. They aren't, not even close. Elite defensive football has slid into the valley while elite offensive football has peaked. I'm sure offensive trends follow defensive trends. They certainly have to based on your averages. The scary part is in one year so much shifted to the mean. The rules have altered the game greatly, the true extent won't be able to be accurately assessed for a few years. However the one year splits tell a strong story..
    Last edited by mikesteelnation1; 04-18-2012 at 02:33 AM.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

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    Might be because certain QB's had monster seasons.

    Dave, it's interesting that for years now, people have bemoaned the declining fundamentals of tackling. To these ears, it sounds like the same song, many verses later. I wonder if there are (or if there will be) numbers to support the perception that defenses are tackling worse. My memory tells me that Bill Walsh never demanded physical practices from his teams, and they did OK.

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    My feeling is that if you're an NFL player, less physical practices aren't going to do a lick to impact your ability to tackle.

    Well unless you're Asante Samuel.
    "Biggest blowout since Andy Reid vs. Skinny jeans" - Colts01

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by KabaModernFan View Post
    My feeling is that if you're an NFL player, less physical practices aren't going to do a lick to impact your ability to tackle.

    Well unless you're Asante Samuel.
    Not true. No substitute for real contact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by packa7x View Post
    Not true. No substitute for real contact.
    So what exactly are you saying? Patrick Willis is suddenly going to become a worse tackler?
    "Biggest blowout since Andy Reid vs. Skinny jeans" - Colts01

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by KabaModernFan View Post
    So what exactly are you saying? Patrick Willis is suddenly going to become a worse tackler?
    It may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things for him, but as a whole many players will suffer. Tackling is something that always needs work. When I played, we had tackling drills Mondays and Tuesdays. We had stations...tackling dummies, 1-man sled, pursuit tackle, and direct contact tackle. Tackling dummies we had a 10 yard start and got to clobber the crap out of a dummy. 1-man sled we had to sprint 5 yards, hit the sled low, pick it up and drive it 20 yards. Pursuit tackle was where there was a line of guys. The first guy was the tackler, the coach would toss the 2nd guy in line the ball and he had to stay between cones they set up. The other guy had to react to the direction the ball carrier went, lay a clean lick on him, wrap up and drive him to the ground. The direct contact tackle was for linemen. We would break off into groups of 3. 1 lineman was the ball carrier, one was the offensive lineman, and one was the defensive lineman. The coach would say "go" and based off of the offensive lineman's block you had to read and react to where the play was going, use an evasive maneuver, and make a stop.

    Considering those 4, which do you think helps prepare you most for a game? The two inanimate objects that don't move at all and weigh significantly less than a full grown man? Or the living, breathing, sentient being who more closely resembles what you see on the field on game day. I'm not saying that nobody will know how to tackle, but I am saying it will get more sloppy. When I played, during tackling drills our best guard shattered his knee cap...we didn't do any contact drills for the last 4 games. We lost 3 of them, one to completely inferior competition. I know it's high school and things are fundamentally different than the NFL, but it's hard to stay sharp if you don't practice it frequently. Imagine if Patrick Willis stopped lifting 7 days a week and went to once a week...he wouldn't be as strong...his workout would become less beneficial, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by packa7x View Post
    It may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things for him, but as a whole many players will suffer. Tackling is something that always needs work. When I played, we had tackling drills Mondays and Tuesdays. We had stations...tackling dummies, 1-man sled, pursuit tackle, and direct contact tackle. Tackling dummies we had a 10 yard start and got to clobber the crap out of a dummy. 1-man sled we had to sprint 5 yards, hit the sled low, pick it up and drive it 20 yards. Pursuit tackle was where there was a line of guys. The first guy was the tackler, the coach would toss the 2nd guy in line the ball and he had to stay between cones they set up. The other guy had to react to the direction the ball carrier went, lay a clean lick on him, wrap up and drive him to the ground. The direct contact tackle was for linemen. We would break off into groups of 3. 1 lineman was the ball carrier, one was the offensive lineman, and one was the defensive lineman. The coach would say "go" and based off of the offensive lineman's block you had to read and react to where the play was going, use an evasive maneuver, and make a stop.

    Considering those 4, which do you think helps prepare you most for a game?
    Look I get your points here, but these guys are playing in the National Football League. We're not talking about high school chumps here. If you are good enough to play on an NFL defense then I don't care how often you do or do not practice tackling, you're not just going to forget how to do it effectively. And understand too that we're talking about the quality of tackling, something that is completely unquantifiable really and can vary from person to person. Plus we can always just flip it around the other way. Offensive players won't be used to taking hits, how will they react? I think that argument is slightly less bogus, but this is not a one way street.

    When I played, during tackling drills our best guard shattered his knee cap...we didn't do any contact drills for the last 4 games. We lost 3 of them, one to completely inferior competition. I know it's high school and things are fundamentally different than the NFL, but it's hard to stay sharp if you don't practice it frequently. Imagine if Patrick Willis stopped lifting 7 days a week and went to once a week...he wouldn't be as strong...his workout would become less beneficial, etc.
    You don't think losing those games maybe had anything to do with losing a crucial cog on the offensive line? You didn't lose those games because you couldn't tackle as well man, you just got beat. Come on now. And really? You're trying to compare Patrick Willis not tackling people in OTAs to Patrick Willis not working out at all? That's equivalent to saying that a great comedian not practicing jokes in the mirror is the same as that same comedian not writing any jokes at all.
    "Biggest blowout since Andy Reid vs. Skinny jeans" - Colts01

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