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Thread: Will Big Ben's 'injuries' end up hurting him?

  1. #21
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post

    No one is complaining about anything. I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene? When there are millions of dollars tied to a franchise QB, how much rope do you give him and when do you reel it in?

    Let's use Ben as an example. Ben exaggerates injuries, possibly imagines a few and goes out on the field. The media swoons, the Steelers fans cheer and gush while Ben laps it up. His toughness (real or exaggerated) gets so much hype, so much in fact that you used Tomlin's quote about Ben after he got hurt vs Cleveland last season. You even made a thread about it. Its talked about in every Steelers game and you can bet it will be shoved down our collective throats this Sunday night.

    Since you and Mike were apparently split from the same petri dish, and you both don't care what he says as long as he stats this and percentages that....How do you feel now that he my be out 6 weeks? From your own lips, or fingertips in this format, you don't have faith in the backups. You say Ben is the offense. The team wasn't exactly breaking records and running up scores, and now they don't have Ben. I don't see this season getting better, I see it getting worse.

    Obviously, Ben can't Superman this injury. When do you as fans say enough of the tough guy hero crap? Remember when he was a detriment to the team in SF? When they got Tebow'd? When do you make the fan voice heard that you want to protect the QB by sitting him as needed? Drafting a successor and a FA backup that fits the system?

    Here's a thought and it's not far fetched as it may seem. What if Ben is out for the season? His kid is born and he does the whole mortality thing and decides to retire.
    The Tomlin quote was used because I loved the way he put it. That quote was following him finishing the Cleveland game in which he got hurt. He shouldn't have played against SF. That's hindsight. But at the same time, that was also the game with the power outages, causing multiple stretches of inactivity, which didn't help him get it loose, so who knows how he's have played if it were a normal game.

    Since you remember my posts so well, I'll remind you that I was the one picking them to lose to Denver. They weren't Tebowed because of his injury, though he didn't play his best game. Add to that, I thought he should have never played again in 2006 following his concussion in Atlanta, 4 months after the accident. I'm not sure how any of that is relevant, other than trying to say we as fans put team before player.

    And I'm on record as saying Leftwich is a bad fit for the offense, and that Batch is likely a better fit. But I'll also trust the coaches decision making. I've made no predictions on that game, other than in the game picks section. But of course they're season is in trouble without him around. But that has nothing to do with any of my comments on his injury, and doesn't relate to this particular thread, as far as I was concerned, so I'm confused as to why it was brought up on your response to me.

    I think he should sit out the rest of the year. I'm also not a doctor. If they clear him, fantastic. But from what I hear, it doesn't appear to be on his best interests to play. But I also don't get how that applies to my comments. Those comments were not necessarily reflective of my fandom of the team, just an observation. As I said, I've been equally put off regarding the comments about Cutlers injury in the NFC Championship.

    As for if he retires, isn't that his choice? Again, what does that have to do with anything? Am I expected to call him selfish, making my stance hypocritical? Mike and I happen to agree on quite a bit. Doesn't make me speak for him, I speak for myself.

    Im not from Pittsburgh, dont listen to the Steeler talk there either. Im from the area, 2 hours away, and decidedly steeler country, but was never able to engage in the Mark Maddens of the world. My stances are clear. Just because I'm a fan doesn't necessarily mean that my judgment is clouded. It's not my place to judge, but at the same time, I'll be happy to share opinions. Sometimes I speak as a fan, that's why we like the game in the first place. But I'm also very fair, regarding any team. So again, I'm not sure what pot you're trying to stir here.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

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  2. #22
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    No one is complaining about anything. I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene? When there are millions of dollars tied to a franchise QB, how much rope do you give him and when do you reel it in?

    Let's use Ben as an example. Ben exaggerates injuries, possibly imagines a few and goes out on the field. The media swoons, the Steelers fans cheer and gush while Ben laps it up. His toughness (real or exaggerated) gets so much hype, so much in fact that you used Tomlin's quote about Ben after he got hurt vs Cleveland last season. You even made a thread about it. Its talked about in every Steelers game and you can bet it will be shoved down our collective throats this Sunday night.

    Since you and Mike were apparently split from the same petri dish, and you both don't care what he says as long as he stats this and percentages that....How do you feel now that he my be out 6 weeks? From your own lips, or fingertips in this format, you don't have faith in the backups. You say Ben is the offense. The team wasn't exactly breaking records and running up scores, and now they don't have Ben. I don't see this season getting better, I see it getting worse.

    Obviously, Ben can't Superman this injury.When do you as fans say enough of the tough guy hero crap? when he was a detriment to the team in SF? When they got Tebow'd? When do you make the fan voice heard that you want to protect the QB by sitting him as needed? Drafting a successor and a FA backup that fits the system?

    Here's a thought and it's not far fetched as it may seem. What if Ben is out for the season? His kid is born and oes the whole mortality thing and
    decides to retire.
    You replied to trumpet, but said "you guys". I'll assume that to include me.

    I said 5 hours before you started this thread (and before your last post in it)
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesteelnation1 View Post
    From today's Pittsburgh trib

    "Roethlisberger dislocated his top rib — the first rib — that protects the aorta, the largest artery in the body. Should the rib somehow puncture the aorta, it could be a life-threatening situation.

    Roethlisberger also has a dislocation of the sternoclavicular joint that connects the sternum to the collarbone — essentially, the part that hooks the arm to the body. The dislocation occurs when ligaments tear under stress."

    Both injuries sound pretty serious to me. Perhaps the front office is downplaying the shoulder injury. They sure as hell.are being mum with a realistic timetable for his return. I'm guessing it's going to be 4 weeks minimum, and personally I'd rather he wait till he he's actually ready to return. He has a bad habit of forcing his way back too soon, and tomlin needs to put his foot down and keep him out till he is healthy enough to be effective.

    Both guys did a horrible job in judging when Ben should have returned last year from the ankle injury.
    Perhaps you've let your views be colored by the blather that gets aired on local radio. After that post, both trumpet and myself opined the rest of the season didn't look good sans Ben.. I certainly didn't claim we would win it all, nor did trumpet.

    Do I think we should invest a 3rd round pick in a developmental qb? Totally.

    Do I think anything else mentioned is worth debating here, seeing as how it's been addressed publicly prior to this thread? No way. We need a better back up. Is a guy who misses that few games to injury getting cut? Barely a game a year? With his production? No way. That debate is better left to mark Madden and the callers to his show. It's exactly where I thought this convo was going from jump.. EXACTLY why i didn't see how it added value.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vancemeek View Post
    Thanks Mike. You're doing exactly what you said for me to not do, except you wrote an entire diatribe off-topic. Just pointing out that you are defensive anytime anybody says anything about the Steelers, in all threads, for example, when I selected Tim Brown over Bettis in the HOF brackets. It was relevant to the topic. As for your post, you're right. I just made up the fact that I took an entire 30 seconds to read your post. {}. I'll stop, so I don't kill the thread. {}
    Am I defensive when I disagree? Sure I am. Same as you are. I didn't do anything I suggested you shouldn't. Now you're attempting spin when you've been called out. You played morality police with no added opinion.. I gave my opinion, and told you to not be the hall monitor. Not the same at all. Not even close. Let folks argue. Like I said before you ever said a word in this thread. There was no need for you to say anything about verbage. Especially when you took it out of context with nothing to say other than that.

    I'd suggest reading things in context as they are written, and not carrying a grudge when someone disagrees with you. I didn't even remember that disagreement in the hof thread.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

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    No grudges. I didn't care then. I don't care now. Just pointing it out. Nobody is playing morality police. Don't be melodramatic. Also, I read fine. Don't insult my intelligence.
    Twitter @vancemeek "I wish I could say something classy and inspirational, but that just wouldn't be our style. Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory...lasts forever."-Shane Falco

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    /sigh
    /facepalm
    /end thread
    You ask me why I lift, I wonder why you don't.

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    Leftwich was obviously injured. It affected his performance. He got worse with every drive. He became a detriment to the team. Tomlin did nothing. Steelers lost.
    While there were other things that contributed to the loss, Leftwich's rib injury is the perfect example of the point of this thread.

    Now leftwich is going to be out. And I could care less. In fact, I am enjoying this. I started this thread to discuss how coaches can avoid putting players and their team in this situation. Instead...the thread didn't turn out that way I planned.

    Enjoy the crow, Steelers fans and most of all...enjoy the rest of your season.
    You ask me why I lift, I wonder why you don't.

  7. #27
       
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    From the OP...
    Will Big Ben's 'injuries' end up hurting him?
    So are the injuries real or are they made up?
    Why would Ben want to put every ache and pain out there to the public, the other teams and the Steelers? I mean think about it. He is more willing to volunteer specifics about his injuries than any player I have ever seen.
    Is he a drama queen that embellishes injuries publicly so he can be a hero on the field?
    Why specifically point out every flaw you have to your upcoming opponent? Fake injury, fight through fake pain, win game and be a hero.
    Embellished or not, the Steelers ownership has made changes to the staff and the offense to protect their "injury prone" QB.
    Now...
    I started this thread to discuss how coaches can avoid putting players and their team in this situation.
    {I can't believe we all missed your original point. It was so clear. Our bad}

    Seemed to me like your original point was to manufacture an argument. Then, you tried to twist my words and put words into my mouth, and mike's mouth to stir up the argument. Even after finally deciding to "/end thread", it looks like you are now trying to manufacture another one.

    /shaking my head
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    I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer for FP. I'm just a guy trying to contribute discussions. If I were an awesome article writer as you, maybe I could convey ideas better. But I'm not. I can orally convey my thoughts but not so well in written format.
    When the thread was leaning to an argument from Steelers fans, I made an attempt to steer away from that by trying to clarify what I intended the thread to be in a response to you.
    I don't care if Ben tells the world he has jock itch and played without Lotramin. I don't care if he's a douche or drama queen. All of this is documented and is mostly true. But that is not what this is about. It's about Ben, or any QB taking too much punishment, getting obscene amounts of injuries. When is it too much? When do coaches and the front offices intervene?
    So you can think whatever you want, you do anyway. And I don't give a damn what you think. Go ahead and say I want to start an argument. I'm just pointing out that I am sick of the reaction of Steelers fans on this site. If I, or anyone wants to talk about the Steelers, no matter if it's cheers or jeers, we should be allowed to do so without Steelers fans reacting badly to anything negative. You act like people are talking about your mother.

    So to avoid another Wax situation, I offer you to talk to me man to man in PM. If not, put me on ignore and move on. That way you won't have to see anything I say about the Steelers, favorably or not.
    You ask me why I lift, I wonder why you don't.

  9. #29
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer for FP. I'm just a guy trying to contribute discussions. If I were an awesome article writer as you, maybe I could convey ideas better. But I'm not. I can orally convey my thoughts but not so well in written format.
    When the thread was leaning to an argument from Steelers fans, I made an attempt to steer away from that by trying to clarify what I intended the thread to be in a response to you.


    So you can think whatever you want, you do anyway. And I don't give a damn what you think. Go ahead and say I want to start an argument. I'm just pointing out that I am sick of the reaction of Steelers fans on this site. If I, or anyone wants to talk about the Steelers, no matter if it's cheers or jeers, we should be allowed to do so without Steelers fans reacting badly to anything negative. You act like people are talking about your mother.

    So to avoid another Wax situation, I offer you to talk to me man to man in PM. If not, put me on ignore and move on. That way you won't have to see anything I say about the Steelers, favorably or not.
    Just to clarify, this was never personal. I gave my initial opinion based on the OP. I initially intended to ignore, but the entire first page of comments were all centered around that thought, so I first responded to Bengals, then responded in a more big picture approach, both to the OP, and to the general consensus that has been portrayed by many. You responded with the quote above, which was the first time you mentioned anything about coaches intervening. And even within that entire quote, you went back to the "drama queen" and whether or not the injuries were real or not.

    So if you wanted to discuss how the coaches should have handled Ben, then what I'm saying is, that probably should have been made more clear from the start. Point blank, I think that's a fair point to discuss. But based on everything actually written in the OP, that didn't seem to be the point. The point seemed to be another intentionally inflammatory article on Ben as an embellisher with selfish motivations, something I don't believe to be true.

    Instead, it somehow morphed into being about me (and mike) responding in the manner that I/we did.

    You can have whatever opinions on the Steelers that you wish. I get that they are a polarizing team, and that many hate them. I have no problem with that, and thoroughly enjoy the back and forth. But to clearly state one thing, then switch to something else midstream and say that was your intent all along comes off as a bit disingenuous.

    I have no need to ignore anyone, and am happy to speak with anyone man to man (or woman), whether in PM, or here. I have nothing to hide. Like I said, there's nothing personal with anyone. But that doesn't mean I don't, and shouldn't, have disagreements, whether in content or approach.
    Last edited by Trumpetbdw; 11-19-2012 at 04:17 PM.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

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