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Thread: Eifert vs Vaccaro?

  1. #11
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Gapinski View Post
    In the current NFL, I believe in building the lines, getting a QB and getting weapons, so I support the Eifert side of this argument. Safeties can be gotten and I can't find anyone who thinks Vacarro is going to be as dynamic as the big name safeties in the league. The rules favor scoring points, so why not try to score more? The Steelers addressed the OL in the last two seasons and did some DL before that, but I would think that anything on the DL, TE or the back end of the defense would help. Of course, that keeps the S position in play for them, but I want play-makers on offense before I hope I get one on defense. Plus, and this is just my personal opinion, there's something about Vacarro that makes me think that he doesn't have the best attitude around. Call it a hunch from watching him.

    Plus, in the 2nd round, I think there is a good chance to grab a quality safety. I think there is a drop off in between Eifert and Ertz.
    I agree with you. I don't think Vaccaro is a slam dunk, and he's certainly not the same level of prospect that Mark Barron was last year.

    I'm certainly not saying that we ignore the safety position. In fact, I wouldn't even have a problem if the Steelers spend 2 picks in the first half of the draft on safety. They are very different players, but I think they could make either Eric Reid or Shamarco Thomas work for their defense in round 2.

    As far as the player with the sneaky upside in this draft, and who may have the potential to give the Steelers the closest facsimile to what Polamalu brings them, I kind of like Earl Wolff in the middle rounds. He has good game tape, performed well during his all-star week, and has game-breaking ability with his speed, instincts, and quality hands.

    Grabbing at least 1, if not 2 of those, along with Eifert in the first 4 rounds would be a much greater preference to me than spending an early pick on Vaccaro. The offense became stagnant last year. Ben's injury didn't help, and they were coming around prior to his injury. But they just lost a deep threat, and have a security blanket that may still be compromised this year. Eifert can give their offense a dynamic dimension, and with the depth at safety, I really don't feel like we'd be losing anything by passing on Vaccaro and waiting an extra round.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpetbdw View Post
    I agree with you. I don't think Vaccaro is a slam dunk, and he's certainly not the same level of prospect that Mark Barron was last year.

    I'm certainly not saying that we ignore the safety position. In fact, I wouldn't even have a problem if the Steelers spend 2 picks in the first half of the draft on safety. They are very different players, but I think they could make either Eric Reid or Shamarco Thomas work for their defense in round 2.

    As far as the player with the sneaky upside in this draft, and who may have the potential to give the Steelers the closest facsimile to what Polamalu brings them, I kind of like Earl Wolff in the middle rounds. He has good game tape, performed well during his all-star week, and has game-breaking ability with his speed, instincts, and quality hands.

    Grabbing at least 1, if not 2 of those, along with Eifert in the first 4 rounds would be a much greater preference to me than spending an early pick on Vaccaro. The offense became stagnant last year. Ben's injury didn't help, and they were coming around prior to his injury. But they just lost a deep threat, and have a security blanket that may still be compromised this year. Eifert can give their offense a dynamic dimension, and with the depth at safety, I really don't feel like we'd be losing anything by passing on Vaccaro and waiting an extra round.
    I'd take Vacarro over Barron no question, and I've seen multiple analysts say they'd take Vacarro. Barron was severely overdrafted last year by about 10 spots.

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    Plus didn't Heath have a really bad knee injury at the end of the season?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    I'd take Vacarro over Barron no question, and I've seen multiple analysts say they'd take Vacarro. Barron was severely overdrafted last year by about 10 spots.
    I'm not trying to discount Vaccaro in any way. He certainly has a chance to be a very good safety, and I'll be thrilled if the Steelers end up with him.

    But to say that he's a better prospect than Mark Barron, whether you or other analysts, is revisionist history. Barron was a legit top 10 pick last year, who some thought could have gone even earlier than #7. But because he played a season, and wasn't a pro bowler right away, it's easy to become more enamoured with the unknown of Vaccaro than with the perceived known of Barron. Scouts fall into that trap all the time, since their job is to find the next big thing. Fact is, Barron started 16 games, and was a very solid contributor by the end of the season. He is very likely to take a big next step as soon as this year.

    Again, Vaccaro has a chance to be very good, but he's not quite on the same level as a prospect as Barron was.

    Add in the safety depth in this draft, compared with the lack of safety depth in the last draft, and the potential of a game-changing talent in Eifert, and that's why I'm anti Vaccaro in this particular debate. If Eifert is off the board, Vaccaro would be my choice, hands down, assuming he's still there. But honestly, I think Vaccaro gets taken before pick 17.

    {Of course, watch this entire discussion become moot when the Steelers pass on both to take Jarvis Jones.}
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

    -Marion Motley

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpetbdw View Post
    I'm not trying to discount Vaccaro in any way. He certainly has a chance to be a very good safety, and I'll be thrilled if the Steelers end up with him.

    But to say that he's a better prospect than Mark Barron, whether you or other analysts, is revisionist history. Barron was a legit top 10 pick last year, who some thought could have gone even earlier than #7. But because he played a season, and wasn't a pro bowler right away, it's easy to become more enamoured with the unknown of Vaccaro than with the perceived known of Barron. Scouts fall into that trap all the time, since their job is to find the next big thing. Fact is, Barron started 16 games, and was a very solid contributor by the end of the season. He is very likely to take a big next step as soon as this year.

    Again, Vaccaro has a chance to be very good, but he's not quite on the same level as a prospect as Barron was.

    Add in the safety depth in this draft, compared with the lack of safety depth in the last draft, and the potential of a game-changing talent in Eifert, and that's why I'm anti Vaccaro in this particular debate. If Eifert is off the board, Vaccaro would be my choice, hands down, assuming he's still there. But honestly, I think Vaccaro gets taken before pick 17.

    {Of course, watch this entire discussion become moot when the Steelers pass on both to take Jarvis Jones.}


    I honestly couldn't tell you how Barron's season with the Bucs has gone. Don't know that I saw a single snap of his.

    Barron was over-drafted. Most people had him as a late teens prospect. I don't recall anyone having him as a top ten pick.


    IMO Vacarro has more value in today's NFL. Barron is best suited to be a deep safety, a centerfielder. Vacarro is far more capable IMO of lining up in man coverage in the slot, something of high value to teams. Word is some teams are even considering him playing some CB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tubbs1518 View Post
    Plus didn't Heath have a really bad knee injury at the end of the season?
    Heath ripped up his knee, yes. And while that's one of the reasons why I've mentioned that I want Eifert, it's honestly not a big one. Miller is expected to be back, at this point, by the start of the year.

    I don't want Eifert just for the sake of taking the supposed best available TE. I don't want Eifert simply because Miller may not be full strength this year, or because he may only have a few years left in the tank.

    I want Eifert because he's the biggest potential offensive difference-maker in this draft. I want Eifert because the mismatches he could create would give defenses fits. I want Eifert because the Steelers desperately need another big red zone target to help turn more FGs into TDs. I want Eifert because when the play is extended, he'll be virtually uncoverable. I want Eifert because he'll make Heath Miller, Antonio Brown, and Ben Roethlisberger better. A talent like Eifert, if he can fulfill his potential, opens up an entire offense. For Pittsburgh, that's enough to make him the most important player in this draft.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    I honestly couldn't tell you how Barron's season with the Bucs has gone. Don't know that I saw a single snap of his.

    Barron was over-drafted. Most people had him as a late teens prospect. I don't recall anyone having him as a top ten pick.


    IMO Vacarro has more value in today's NFL. Barron is best suited to be a deep safety, a centerfielder. Vacarro is far more capable IMO of lining up in man coverage in the slot, something of high value to teams. Word is some teams are even considering him playing some CB.
    My memory was a little fuzzy on Barron, but Mayock had him as his #7 overall prospect, and had him going #11 in the draft. Todd McShay also had him going #11. Most others had him going #14 to Dallas, mainly because they had the biggest safety need.

    Just before the draft, Kiper mentioned that Barron was rising up boards. Many teams were rumored to have him as high as their 6th best available prospect. When Dallas traded up to #5, many thought it was to take Barron. Kiper compared Barron to Reid and Polamalu.

    Yes, they are different players. Personally, I'm not sure Vaccaro has that burst that the top safeties have. Again, he's a very good prospect, and should be a very good pro. I'm sold on him, so long as it doesn't come at the expense of taking Eifert, which is the context of this discussion.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpetbdw View Post
    Heath ripped up his knee, yes. And while that's one of the reasons why I've mentioned that I want Eifert, it's honestly not a big one. Miller is expected to be back, at this point, by the start of the year.

    I don't want Eifert just for the sake of taking the supposed best available TE. I don't want Eifert simply because Miller may not be full strength this year, or because he may only have a few years left in the tank.

    I want Eifert because he's the biggest potential offensive difference-maker in this draft. I want Eifert because the mismatches he could create would give defenses fits. I want Eifert because the Steelers desperately need another big red zone target to help turn more FGs into TDs. I want Eifert because when the play is extended, he'll be virtually uncoverable. I want Eifert because he'll make Heath Miller, Antonio Brown, and Ben Roethlisberger better. A talent like Eifert, if he can fulfill his potential, opens up an entire offense. For Pittsburgh, that's enough to make him the most important player in this draft.
    I agree with every bit of what you've said here trumpet. If vaccaro is off the board (which I suspect he'll be) this debate is moot. I love the potential eifert brings to the offense. Having said that, it doesn't address anything I replied to in the matter.

    You knew I'd be quite consternate on the matter, and you haven't addressed why I think vaccaro is the better selection in my reply. More praise for how eifert makes our offense hum won't get it done here. Were not about to go all saints, and ignore defense. Eifert would be the more productive player this year, I acquise that point. But the pick isn't about THIS year, its about the next 5.

    The team has tons of potential for this year, but it has just as many question marks. This isn't an all in for a final piece Lombardi year. Were past that stage. Were actually recovering from that stage. That doesn't mean we can't win it all, just simply we have too many question marks to be even slightly certain.

    Were entering a year where we're changing our starting rb, #2 wr, nt, rolb, #2 cb, and many on our o line are young and unproven. Might we contend for a sb? Sure, I have faith. Are we one guy away? Not even close.

    I'd rather stick to what we do, get the best ss by far in this class or next, hope the question marks play great, and snag a te in next years much better class, or later in this one. I'd rather put to bed our cap issues, and move past paying so much for aging safeties.

    We're more likely to contend for a Lombardi after we answer our question marks, and fix our cap issues created by trying to retain our core for the sb runs we made.

    I know I'll change my tone after vaccaro is gone, and we pick eifert. I'm forced to as a fan of the team. However, right now we're debating who's the better pick and why...
    Last edited by mikesteelnation1; 04-18-2013 at 02:30 AM.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

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    All I've said about our cap issues and how we're no where near in "this year mode" because of the cap issues, and I read Gb hosted McClendon today, our annointed starting nt. ANOTHER young player we don't want to lose, but might not be able to keep because of our horrible cap situation if the pack throws any real offer his way. It would require a redo of polamalus quite bloated contract to make cap space to match..

    I'm fed up with this. Sick of keeping guys we shouldn't to get under the cap. I can live with a redo on Ben, ab, Timmons, and Woodley (as long as he takes conditioning seriously this off season). A redo on troy?? No way.. we shouldn't be paying a safety that much, especially when a JAG like will Allen was very good last year in troys stead. I love polamalu, but he isn't worth the contract were paying him. He's getting "the guy" treatment we give guys.

    I want rid of troys contract so bad. We have played quite well without him, but since I know we hang onto "that guy" too often recently, I want the replacement to see what he does daily, until he gets hurt. I still love the flashes he shows, but I doubt his consistency in giving those.

    He's not worth what we're giving him, but we're stuck because we have no one behind him.. vaccaro gives us someone behind him.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

  10. #20
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesteelnation1 View Post
    All I've said about our cap issues and how we're no where near in "this year mode" because of the cap issues, and I read Gb hosted McClendon today, our annointed starting nt. ANOTHER young player we don't want to lose, but might not be able to keep because of our horrible cap situation if the pack throws any real offer his way. It would require a redo of polamalus quite bloated contract to make cap space to match..

    I'm fed up with this. Sick of keeping guys we shouldn't to get under the cap. I can live with a redo on Ben, ab, Timmons, and Woodley (as long as he takes conditioning seriously this off season). A redo on troy?? No way.. we shouldn't be paying a safety that much, especially when a JAG like will Allen was very good last year in troys stead. I love polamalu, but he isn't worth the contract were paying him. He's getting "the guy" treatment we give guys.

    I want rid of troys contract so bad. We have played quite well without him, but since I know we hang onto "that guy" too often recently, I want the replacement to see what he does daily, until he gets hurt. I still love the flashes he shows, but I doubt his consistency in giving those.

    He's not worth what we're giving him, but we're stuck because we have no one behind him.. vaccaro gives us someone behind him.
    Yet another reason the Steelers should have taken the extra 3rd round pick and let Sanders walk. They had to see the possibility for this to happen, no?
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

    -Marion Motley

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