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Thread: Eifert vs Vaccaro?

  1. #1
       
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    Eifert vs Vaccaro?

    So trumpet and I have a bit of a disagreement we'd like to debate. We thought we were going to get to in the mock thread, until Bengals1181 killed that with his selection of eifert.

    We both agree the likely targets available to us at #17 are eifert, vaccaro, and cooper. Both of us agree that Cooper is our 3 rd option. Our disagreement stems from eifert vs vaccaro.

    I'm firmly vaccaro, trumpet is firmly eifert. Both of us will be overjoyed if we get either, but our consternation stems from us having to choose between them.

    I believe vaccaro is the better selection for a couple simple reasons. Defensive players ALWAYS sit for us their rookie year. Even troy did, and he's a sure fire hof player. Having said that and knowing he sits, here's why I want vaccaro..

    No one will ever replace polamalu. He's a one of a kind player. That said I want to make sure our safety of the future gets a leg up, he might not if selected next year. I want him to learn under coach dad, be taught by coach lake, and watch what polamalu and Clark do. Lebeau may retire, lake may get an offer for promotion, and Clark and polamalu might be salary cap casualties next off season.

    The base of knowledge a player gets in our defense is paramount, and they won't get a better base than the one I described above. Given no safety is considered to be thought of considerably better, if at all than vaccaro next draft, what he could learn this year is tantamount to future success. All of our "teachers" are on short arcs with the team.

    Conversely the offense is still quite new given the time Ben missed, and was still hurt after. This offense doesn't require the time to grow to fill a role the defense does.

    I'd prefer to give the safety of the future adequate time under the "best growing conditions" possible, as opposed to grabbing a te in the first this year.should we reverse picking a s this year in the first and a te in the first next year. The te's performance next year vs this year wouldn't have as much as a delta as the safety would, if they both were pressed into full time starter duty , next year.
    Last edited by mikesteelnation1; 04-16-2013 at 02:39 AM.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

  2. #2
    I think it depends on what your team needs. Either I think would be a good option and I'm a big fan of both. If you asked me which I'd be more worried about going to the Steelers, it would be Eifert.

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    I think you might be disappointed.

    Most of the reports I've seen project Vaccaro as a free safety rather than strong safety which I'm pretty sure Polamalu plays. If he's really a FS can he still fit in the Steeler system?

    There haven't been any mocks that suggest that Eifert will go really early but he's such a unique weapon I can see the offensively challenged Jets and/or Dolphins picking him that early.

    What would you think of Cordarrelle Patterson who I saw mocked to Pittsburg last week? Far from safe but enormous upside.

  4. #4
    Vacarro is definitely a SS. Some sites have listed him as a FS, but he's definitely a SS.

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    OK mike, thanks for getting this thread started. Before I get into my points on Eifert v. Vaccaro, let me first address a couple of other draft scenarios.

    Call me crazy, but I'm disappointed that the Steelers decided to match the offer for Sanders. I think a late 3rd rounder is very fair and equal value for him, and considering the $2.5 million they wouldn't be spending, along with the added flexibility another day 2 pick in the draft would have brought, I think I'd have preferred the pick. That's not meant to knock Sanders, who is a good receiver, and could be a good #2 for them. I just think considering the state of the franchise, it would have made more sense to take the pick, and the subsequent cap help.

    That decision leads me to believe that the Steelers are seriously considering a trade down. SF at 31 is a team with few holes, that may see fit to try and move up to 17. Perhaps a 1, 3, and a 6 from SF is a move that both teams would consider, depending on how the draft unfolds. Honestly, even if they decide to trade down, I'd have still preferred the 3rd round pick than Sanders.

    I agree with mike on our top 3 options, with Jonathan Cooper a distant 3rd. The only other person I could be talked into in that spot is if someone can convince me that Jarvis Jones' back will not be an issue, and that he's guaranteed to be the next Terrell Suggs. Short of that, taking a pass rusher in this spot would be a disappointment, and likely means that all 3 targets are already off the board.

    With all due respect to my friend from the south, I completely disagree with mike that Vaccaro should be the Steelers' top target. Instead, their top target should be Tyler Eifert.

    That's not to say we shouldn't draft a safety, I think there's no question that the Steelers address the safety position relatively early. I'm just not sure that Vaccaro is the answer.

    First of all, Polamalu is a one-of-a-kind talent. His skills aren't matched by any safety prospect in this, nor in many drafts. But more than a safety, Polamalu is the X-Factor of the LeBeau defense, just as David Fulcher was for Cincy in the 80s, and Rod Woodson was back in the 90s. Charles Woodson plays the same role in Dom Capers' version of the LeBeau zone-blitz.

    With that said, Polamalu's "X-Factor" replacement is already on the roster, in my opinion. That's Cortez Allen, who was dynamite at the end of last year when he was essentially simply asked to make plays.

    Vaccaro is a very good safety who is not quite in the same class as Mark Barron was last year. Vaccaro, in my opinion, lacks the burst, and the instincts of Troy, so I'm not sure how much he'd be able to take away from watching him. If there's anyone who may have that ball-hawking potential in this draft, it may be Eric Reid, who very well may be there in round 2, or if they trade down from their spot in round 1. But even then, there is no Troy.

    This team is in need of someone in round 1 to make an impact on this year's team. The best player is Ben Roethlisberger. They've taken steps to protect him, and while injuries hurt that effort last year, I expect the line to be significantly improved this year.

    The two models of an explosive offense I look to in the NFL are in New England and New Orleans. These offenses are able to maintain a level of explosiveness even without a truly explosive threat on the outside. Their offenses are entirely predicated on creating mismatches in the passing game, through both size and versatility.

    Tyler Eifert is the one player in this draft who can bring that offensive diversity to Pittsburgh. He is a potentially dynamic threat downfield, who can contribute immediately to their offense. Not only would he be the eventual replacement to Heath Miller, but he could also provide an insurance policy in case Miller isn't ready for the start of the season, which is important considering Miller was the most important offensive piece for Roethlisberger last year. Plus, while Eifert can learn from Miller, specifically regarding an improvement to his blocking, and what it takes to run routes in the NFL, he can do this while sharing a field with him on a consistent basis, and providing an added threat.

    Eifert is in that Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham, Greg Olsen mold as a receiver, and putting him along side Heath Miller would make both even more effective.

    When an offense take a personel hit like the Steelers have, the quickest way to fix it is to make it as diverse and unpredictable as possible. As mike and I discussed in a previous TopX article regarding creating the top offense in the NFL, we both agreed that a 2 TE offense is the most uncoverable offense to create, especially if both TEs are dangerous receivers, capable of lining up out wide.

    Eifert is one of the best receiving prospects at the TE position to come out in a long time. With Miller's tutilage, the sky is the limit for Eifert. He's the potential dynamic threat that can finally take Big Ben, and the Steelers' offense to that next level they've been previously unable to get to.

    In my opinion, Eifert is the biggest offensive difference-maker in this entire draft, and that's not someone the Steelers can afford to pass on at this point. Especially in favor of a guy like Vaccaro, who's likely to sit this year, and even after that, may not pan out to be anywhere near the type of player he'd ultimately be replacing.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

    -Marion Motley

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    I'd much rather the Steelers take Vaccaro than Eifert. I'd rather face Vaccaro 2-3 times a year then Eifert. I don't even have Vaccaro as the #1 safety in this draft though so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edave View Post
    I think you might be disappointed.

    Most of the reports I've seen project Vaccaro as a free safety rather than strong safety which I'm pretty sure Polamalu plays. If he's really a FS can he still fit in the Steeler system?

    There haven't been any mocks that suggest that Eifert will go really early but he's such a unique weapon I can see the offensively challenged Jets and/or Dolphins picking him that early.

    What would you think of Cordarrelle Patterson who I saw mocked to Pittsburg last week? Far from safe but enormous upside.
    I would not be happy if they took Patterson. Too risky, and considering the vast amount of team needs, not a pick they can afford to make. With Sanders back, they'd be smarter to look at a TE to give them a more versatile look, then grab a WR later on in the draft.

    IF they were to take an offensive skill position early, I think it should be a RB over a WR. I think Eddie Lacy would be a great fit for what they want to do, but at #17, I can't see any scenario where he'd be the best player available.
    "I'd knock your brains out, then pick them up later."

    -Marion Motley

  8. #8
       
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    As trumpet did, I'll address my other concerns that others replied with before I address the conundrum trumpet and I have.

    Vaccaro is definitely going to be a ss, he's not a ball hawk coverage fs, at least at the NFL level. And I'd vomit if we picked Patterson. He's vaulted up draft boards based on his perceived ceiling. What I've seen on tape doesn't say the Steelers pick him at #17. He's SOOOOO raw. Only one year at the highest level of cfb, and his stats and the tape leave a lot to be desired. He's a project wr, IMO.

    Trumpet, you make some excellent points about eifert. I'd love to have him if vaccaro isn't there for all the reasons you listed. He makes our offense so much more dangerous and unpredictable, and as a result more productive. That's the uber fan in me talking if he's our guy, but if we have a choice between the 2 the fan gets drowned out by my biz guy side. Would eifert have more impact THIS year? Of course, we know defensive players sit in our scheme. It's been a million years in NFL time since one started as a rookie. They need time to properly digest the complexity of the scheme.

    Let me frame this up from a biz perspective. Our team is in cap Hell, a Hell that only gets HOTTER next season. The cap isn't expected to grow much, were going to roll over ZERO space, and we only have 35 players under contract to the tune of $113 million. That's before we extend our qb and our pro bowl center. That's before we extend our x factor in waiting in Cortez( and I agree 100%, the kids electric), our starting lde, our #2 wr, our starting nt, and our starting rolb. All before addressing the barren wasteland that is our rb situation past this year.

    Smart cap wrangling in these contracts can keep us under the cap, while allowing us to add the other 14 roster spots, but it puts us right up against the cap again.

    Here's the dilemma: Clark is in the last year of his deal, and polamalu probably is too. Troy has one year left with a cap hit of over 10 mil. Unless he plays most of the games and is his old self, he's a cap casualty, same as Harrison was this year. A safety isn't worth that in today's NFL, with the new cba.

    Troy and Clark are likely gone, unless troy takes a huge paycut and Clark signs for the vet minimum. That leaves us with golden at fs, and a ham sandwich at ss. There are no top tier ss in next years draft class, not to vaccaro's level. There are more bonifide 1st rd te's.

    Given polamalus health issues, and the empty tank of safeties we have, I want the best ss of this and the next class to learn from troy.

    No one will EVER replace troy, but the tandem of a top tier talent with a year to learn (vaccaro), and golden at fs with 2 years under his belt make me a lot more comfortable with Allen being the x factor, than golden and a ham sandwich.

    Ben is by far the best player on our team, but he's not in his twilight years. He can make enough plays with the guys he has, given our defense to keep us winning while the noobs on d get up to speed. I'd prefer we not ignore our roots and go all offense crazy. It certainly hasn't benefited the pats or saints in doing so. Rely on our defense, and behind our newly healthy athletic o line and zone block scheme, keep.Ben clean and let him throw his stable of skill guys open with better rushing results.

    I love the mismatches eifert snd heath can create, but not at the financial stress it puts on the team. It's time to move past that...
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

  9. #9
    In the current NFL, I believe in building the lines, getting a QB and getting weapons, so I support the Eifert side of this argument. Safeties can be gotten and I can't find anyone who thinks Vacarro is going to be as dynamic as the big name safeties in the league. The rules favor scoring points, so why not try to score more? The Steelers addressed the OL in the last two seasons and did some DL before that, but I would think that anything on the DL, TE or the back end of the defense would help. Of course, that keeps the S position in play for them, but I want play-makers on offense before I hope I get one on defense. Plus, and this is just my personal opinion, there's something about Vacarro that makes me think that he doesn't have the best attitude around. Call it a hunch from watching him.

    Plus, in the 2nd round, I think there is a good chance to grab a quality safety. I think there is a drop off in between Eifert and Ertz.

  10. #10
    As Steelers fans, which grouping would you rather?

    1. Tyler Eifert and Eric Reid
    2. Tyler Eifert and D.J. Swearinger
    3. Kenny Vaccaro and Gavin Escobar
    4. Kenny Vaccaro and Travis Kelce

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