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Thread: Darvon needs research help - Athletic Scholarships

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    Darvon needs research help - Athletic Scholarships

    In another thread I posted what I believed to be correct about the details of a typical athletic scholarship.

    School: "We give the scholarship, one year in term, to an individual who is gifted athletically. No strings. He or she does not have to go out for the team in thier Freshman year. They don't have to go out for any team. We will not revoke their Freshman scholarship. Conversely, the scholarship does not guarantee them a spot on the team. They can be cut for athletic reasons, without fear of their Freshman scholarship. We decide whether to give additional scholarships for subsequent years using the same factors as the initial scholarship."
    Bengals then posted that he believed that every point was incorrect. I am not trying to win the argument, but I would like to nail down the facts. The above is a compilation of several years of my reading media reporting, as I have never read an athletic scholarship document.

    But many of you in here HAVE gone to school on an athletic scholarship.

    I would like your help in pinning down the facts, one by one, from Big to Little.


    First Fact up for verification.

    1) Most (but not all) athletic scholarships are 1 year in term, with no guarantees or even stipulations about future scholarships.

    Yes? No? In Between (explain)


    Thank you all for contributing to my knowledge.

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    October 27, 2011

    The (NCAA Board of Directors) also approved a measure that will give individual schools the authority to award scholarships on a multiple-year basis.

    Under the current model, those scholarships are renewed annually and can be revoked for any reason. If adopted, schools could guarantee scholarships for the player's entire career and would be unable to revoke it based solely on athletic performance. Scholarships could still be pulled for reasons such as poor grades, academic misconduct or other forms of improper behavior.

    Ridpath said he's personally been involved with 50 or 60 appeals cases after a coach pulled a player's scholarship.

    "The reason usually is they find a prettier girl to bring to the dance," he said. "If you're Frank Beamer or Nick Saban, they make a lot of money, and they should be able to coach that kid up."
    The proposal passed and is now NCAA law, But it had to survive a stiff challenge and it sounds like it's going to be amended.
    Last edited by wxwax; 10-19-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darvon View Post
    In another thread I posted what I believed to be correct about the details of a typical athletic scholarship.



    Bengals then posted that he believed that every point was incorrect. I am not trying to win the argument, but I would like to nail down the facts. The above is a compilation of several years of my reading media reporting, as I have never read an athletic scholarship document.

    But many of you in here HAVE gone to school on an athletic scholarship.

    I would like your help in pinning down the facts, one by one, from Big to Little.


    First Fact up for verification.

    1) Most (but not all) athletic scholarships are 1 year in term, with no guarantees or even stipulations about future scholarships.

    Yes? No? In Between (explain)


    Thank you all for contributing to my knowledge.
    Football and basketball may have been different in the mid 90's as were the NCAA's obligations from their own perspective.

    I got a 4 year guarantee, in writing, for a scholarship. Thank god I did. I was hurt A LOT, and got lots of bad advice from the "team doctors". Still got my scholarship every year. It's why I picked lacrosse. I had D1 offers for football and wrestling, but they were one ups. It also didn't hurt that the best academic schools that gave offers gave 4 year guarantees, all in lacrosse. I knew I wasn't going pro in anything..

    I chose the education at the best place, with a guarantee in place when it most likely wasn't common place for such a scholarship guarantee. I'm so lucky I lucked up... My education brought me to where I am now, but that education was 100% made possible by my guaranteed scholarship. Had it been year to year I'd have been hosed.
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

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    The rule was put in place last October, giving schools the option to offer multiyear scholarships instead of those that need to be renewed annually.
    OK, so for the past two years the D1 school have the OPTION to offer 1 year or up to 4 year (2 year for Juco) scholarships. I don't know the distribution of who uses 1 year vs how many use multi-year.



    But nearly two years after that legislation, multiyear scholarships are rare, not publicized by universities and largely unknown by the athletes. According to data of 82 universities at the Division I-A level obtained by the Post-Gazette through open records requests, only 16 have offered more than 10 multiyear scholarships. Thirty-two of the universities have offered between one and 10, and thirty-four have not offered any.

    ...The great majority of athletic scholarships are still good for just one year, renewable on a coach's decision, a procedure that flaunts the education-first narrative pitched by the NCAA and member schools, especially at a time when promising an education until graduation is possible....

    Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...#ixzz2iGhprW8E

    - I actually thought it was legal prior to 2011, but rare. I can't reconcile Mike's experience. Was your school D1, Mike?

    - I didn't realize the rule allowed school to pick and choose different terms for different students, which the article states.

    - It seems my original statement is still correct, most athletic scholarships are 1 year with a unilateral school renewal option.

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    2nd Fact up for Verification - "No strings. He or she does not have to go out for the team in thier Freshman year. They don't have to go out for any team. We will not revoke their Freshman scholarship."
    i.e. For a single year scholarship, the school cannot revoke the CURRENT single year scholarship for participation or athletic performance reasons. Although they CAN inform the student that he will not be picked up the next year and ask that he consider voluntarily leaving the school next year in exchange for help and references in acquiring a transfer school.

    =============
    It does seem that the media use the term "revoked" in a sloppy manner. It is hard to tell if they mean "Revoke the current year scholarship" or "Will not pick up the option." I believe the facts are the latter, but obviously if so, then the media are misusing the term "revoke". Look at this article:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_586854.html
    Theheadline uses REVOKE but all the actions are "don't pick up option".

    Does anyone have first hand experience, or a document they can post?

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    Point 2 appears to be wrong:

    "Moreover, Bylaw 15.3.4 addresses the instances in which an award may be reduced or canceled during the period of the award. According to the NCAA, if a student-athlete becomes ineligible to compete, engages in fraudulent behavior (i.e. provides false information on their application, letter of intent, or financial aid agreement), engages in misconduct that results in disciplinary action, or voluntarily ends participation in the sport."

    Wikipedia. Source:SUPPLEMENT NO. 1
    NCAA Divisions I and II Period of Award Legislation
    Division I.
    http://www.pdfio.com/k-3982403.html#


    "(d) Voluntarily (on his or her own initiative) withdraws from a sport at any time for personal
    reasons; however, the recipient's financial aid may not be awarded to another student-athlete in
    the academic term in which the aid was reduced or canceled. A student-athlete's request for
    written permission to contact another four-year collegiate institution regarding a possible transfer
    does not constitute a voluntary withdrawal. (Revised: 1/10/92, 1/11/94, 1/10/95, 1/9/96,
    12/13/05, 9/11/07)"

    So it appears I am completely wrong in this matter. The college can revoke if you quit. Not get cut, or play poorly, but quit.

    Given this, I would love to see the case claiming that the scholarship ISNT barter for participation, given it can be withdrawn for non-participation.

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    An interesting tidbit from

    O f f i c e o f T a x C o m p l i a n c e
    S o u t h e r n I l l i n o i s U n i v e r s i t y
    Tax Guide
    for Academic and
    Administrative
    Departments

    http://taxcompliance.siu.edu/Tax%20Guide.pdf

    page 12



    Payment for Services Are Not Scholarships or Fellowship Grants
    Generally, if an individual is required to perform past, present, or future teaching, research, or other
    services as a condition of receiving the scholarship or fellowship grant, that portion of any amount
    received that represents such payment for services is taxable as compensation for services
    rendered.
    38
    Thus, cash stipends for services aren’t excludible from income as a scholarship or
    fellowship grant even if the money is used to pay tuition.

    Services in this context usually arise in
    one of two ways:

    the recipient either performs services for the educational institution as a condition of
    receiving the scholarship or fellowship grant; or

    the recipient is required to perform future services for the grantor in return for the
    educational assistance provided.

    Generally, bonafide scholarships and fellowship grants are relatively disinterested, “no strings”
    educational grants, with no requirements
    of any substantial quid pro quo from the recipients.


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    Fact 3 and 4

    "They can be cut for athletic reasons, without fear of their Freshman scholarship. We decide whether to give additional scholarships for subsequent years using the same factors as the initial scholarship."

    Are corroborated by the NCAA Bylaws posted above.

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    I don't understand what the tax language is saying. It sounds like it's saying that a football scholarship should be taxable, but it's not, right.

    Regarding four years guaranteed, that's something each athlete should negotiate with the schools which are recruiting him. He has leverage, he should use it. It's a sad statement that the kid's high school coaches and academic advisors aren't guiding him better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darvon View Post
    OK, so for the past two years the D1 school have the OPTION to offer 1 year or up to 4 year (2 year for Juco) scholarships. I don't know the distribution of who uses 1 year vs how many use multi-year.






    - I actually thought it was legal prior to 2011, but rare. I can't reconcile Mike's experience. Was your school D1, Mike?

    - I didn't realize the rule allowed school to pick and choose different terms for different students, which the article states.

    - It seems my original statement is still correct, most athletic scholarships are 1 year with a unilateral school renewal option.
    I did attend a D1 school. 5 of the 19 other schools that recruited me gave me the same 4 year guarantee. I don't know if what they offered was legal according to the NCAA bylaws though. I was a kid, and my parents were well out of their depth. I knew nothing of bylaws or NCAA rules, I took the coaches at their word and what was written on paper. I took the best paper deal. Fortunately my naivete didn't come back to bite me, my university did exactly what they promised.

    I promise you my kids won't go into such a situation so blind as I did. My family isn't sports fans, and they're very working class. I'm the first college grad in my family. My kids won't get screwed with a bad deal, like I could have. Fortunately my university did what it promised. I'm sure most don't. They prey on the lower income, uneducated families.

    I feel so fortunate that what I went through means my kids never will have to. I HAD to get the scholarship to get my education. All my injuries and tons of time with the trainers paid my scholarship bill. I can pay my kid's bill. No pressure for a scholarship to go to school, but I expect them to pay it forward. Everyone wants their kids to be more successful than they are.. I wish the same from mine. They however won't have the external pressure of the system that I had. They will have far worse, internal pressure to live up to our (me and my wife's) expectations.

    My scenario makes me wonder how many student athletes get jobbed by the system and don't get what they were promised... We knew nothing of it, but got lucky. How many were unlucky and got sold snake oil, that actually ended up being snake oil?
    "If I could start my life all over again, I would be a professional football player, and you damn well better believe I would be a Pittsburgh Steeler." Jack Lambert, 1990 HoF Introduction.

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