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Thread: Seen the pictures?

  1. #1
       
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    Seen the pictures?

    Yeah, Greg Hardy, Ray Rice, et al. This is a free country. If the judicial system fails, for whatever reason, the citizenry and its corporate entities are free, within the confines of the law, to exercise judgments of their own. In this case, the best we can hope for is enough pressure from media to force Jones' hand. The best we can do is collectively shut off the NFL. Unlikely.

    If the team I support signed or kept one of these guys, I do not know what I WOULD do. I know what I MIGHT do. 1. Stop watching, reading, listening. 2 Join a picket of the training camp (I am not traveling for this stuff.) 3. Really I would just walk away. I have not yet made the leap to walking away form the league as a whole.
    Go, Flaming Thumbtacks!

  2. #2
    I echo your thoughts. I think my interest in the Bears this season was influenced by their stupid signing of Ray McDonald and silly explanation. And he was a third of the talent Hardy is.

    I don't need the players to be good guys; I just need them not to be ones who should be off the streets.
    As a writer, I'm like the last girl at the bar. In the morning, you may regret asking for my services, but I'll get the job done. As long as I don't puke on your floor.

    Twitter: @PolishedSports

  3. Sad thing is it takes art (photos, video, audio, etc.) to really get the bulk of the public's ire up. There are many (including here) who are ardently against a guy like Hardy (or Rice, McDonald, etc.) playing in the league. But there are many more who do not get as wound up until the visuals and/or 911 calls are released.

    There will now be immense pressure on Jerrah to move on from Hardy. I wonder how he (and Cowboys Nation) will cope.
    Workin' on mysteries without any clues

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    The only thing surprising abo u t the photos is that they were publicized the day it was announced that Hardy's record on this incident was legally erased. Who, possessing them and think I ng they should be out in the world, would wait until this? It would make mich more sense to do it no later than the day of the case being dripped, the day his suspension expired, the day he was signed, the day he got a raise, one of the days he said or did something painfully stupid/crazy. Why todat? Feels like an axe being ground.
    Last edited by ScottDCP; 11-06-2015 at 06:18 PM.
    Go, Flaming Thumbtacks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottDCP View Post
    The only thing surprising abo u t the photos is that they were publicized the day it was announced that Hardy's record on this incident was legally erased. Who, possessing them and think I ng they should be out in the world, would wait until this? It would make mich more sense to do it no later than the day of the case being dripped, the day his suspension expired, the day he was signed, the day he got a raise, one of the days he said or did something painfully stupid/crazy. Why todat? Feels like an axe being ground.
    I'm not 100% but I thought I read somewhere that they couldn't release them until now for some reason.

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    I don't even know who publicized them. I would dearly love for those to be used instead of his face on any tv broadcast where a picture of his face might otherwise be considered appropriate.
    Go, Flaming Thumbtacks!

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    The pictures really don't surprise me. I really don't know what people expected to the woman in the Hardy incident. If anything for me, the pictures are actually more tame than I thought. But I guess people need pictures or videos to get outraged to put a visual image to things.

    Honestly, I think the NFL does this personal conduct policy to placate the fans. And as we have seen, the NFL has screwed up its punishment system because its not an organization that can really punish effectively to satisfy the fans. The reality is that I don't see mass boycotts of the NFL over some of the behavior of its players. I don't see any fanbase putting enough public pressure on an owner to release a player like Hardy, if he can perform. We love our football and its a violent sport. Not all of these guys are saints, and as long as talent trumps headache, its not gonna matter.

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    This really shows the fulcrum.

    Our legal system works, and all legal systems work in democracies, by letting the public decide what is illegal. But passing a law is NOT equal to making an action stop. Society has difficulty understanding this. Laws only add risk of new punishment. It does not stop future occurances. It simply adds a new component to the Cost/Benifit Analysis Every single person, no matter how innumerate or stupid, make 100s of CBA decisions every day. If there are underlying social/economic/human reasons for the bad action to continue in the face of the risk of punishment under new law, then the bad action will continue to be selected for a significant percentage of the opportunities.

    So if the public adds a law and the action doesn't stop completely, we want to add additional laws, until they stack high.

    But if the underlying reasons why some people still select the bad action remain, then you will get a LOT of prosecution and a lot of incarceration.

    Which is also unsatisfying to the public.


    The single issue that the public cannot face is that each bad actor is making decisions, making selections. Law cannot control those decisions, just punish those we deem bad. Freedom means you get to commit a crime. Period. Yin/yang, two edge sword, etc...

    The public calling for Jerry Jones to cut Hardy is exactly equivalent to saying the punishment for DV is life without employment. The fact that it is isolated to a single public case, and a single high-visibility job, are simply details. I don't know the numbers, nor the tests, but probably a significant number of DV perps are not remorseful or rehabilitated. Shall those people be banned from employment? That's an extremely high punishment.

    But most calling to cut Hardy don't bother to convert a request for a single action to a request to change policy.

    Individuals are certainly reasonable to keep their dollars from the Cowboys as personal statement. I do ask if they plan to do the same for other DV perp employers? Would those same people support DV internet lists so that the public can individually do the same? If not, what is the difference?

    These are very hard questions. I would love to see them explored, but only the first question seems to interest the twitterverse. That isn't going to build a very good social system. If you want to fix the house, you cannot just discuss the roof.
    Last edited by darvon; 11-07-2015 at 08:45 AM.

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    Let me answer the question, what would I do if I were Jerry Jones?

    Actually that is pretty simple. And it is the same as if Hardy were an high result individual contributor with a direct bottom line impact in a normal business, like a high results salesman.

    I would evaluate the POR (or DOR in this case), the internal negative effect on other employees, and the PR hit over all our customers. These are all approximations, but business is the science of making decisions on insufficient information, so I would make my best approximations and add up the $$.

    Then I would personally evaluate my personal dislike for that employee (in $$) and add it up.

    Simple.

    As Jerry, I don't have a handle on effect on internal employees, but I suspect it is non-zero.
    And I will have help understanding the Marketing impact over the entire customer base, as well as the Marketing impact of winning.

    And I would make that call. Then go about mitigating the costs of the decision.

    Given what I know, I probably would keep him, unless the internal costs run to high, such that I believe it will significantly impact wins. The photos don't change what I believe happened, it only adds volume to the PR hit, which I thought would be offset by wins at the initial hiring decision anyway.

    This is not new. I believe there are a lot of violent bad actors in NFL staff, so that this calculation is not unique or even that rare.

  10. #10
    So, we should completely ignore the public figure aspect and his millions of dollars because they are just details? I believe that he either threatened this woman or paid her in order for her to not cooperate with the investigation fully.

    Mr. Hardy is a highly-paid person who has been given the privilege to entertain the country at the highest level due to his skill and the willingness of us to pay money into the system. We may not like how that privilege is tied to consequences that the "normal" person may not endure, but he also is able to circumvent some of those consequences because of his money and standing.

    There are plenty of bad people who still work and play in the NFL and we have seen executives fall more recently as well. I simply cannot ignore the idea that a "normal" person would be in jail right now while Hardy is able to continue on the way he is. The part about it where it is clear that he doesn't "get it" (the rap song and stupid comments in the media) is frustrating, but shouldn't be the reason he loses his job. The big problem is that the system failed here in that he has not had to really suffer any punishment for what he did. Remember, he was paid while suspended. He got paid, remained free and didn't even have to succomb to beatings his body takes on Sundays. Throwing a girlfriend across the room a few times ended up being a pretty good deal for him.
    As a writer, I'm like the last girl at the bar. In the morning, you may regret asking for my services, but I'll get the job done. As long as I don't puke on your floor.

    Twitter: @PolishedSports

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