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Thread: That there face mask penalty...

  1. #11
       
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    College replays every targeting call. There is precedent, and facemask would/should be easy.

    And if we're going to have replay, why not just have the booth buzz down? Give the coaches one challenge, but give the booth the opportunity to buzz on every play.
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  2. #12
       
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    If it wasn't the reigning MVP, I'm not sure they call it. In the division, neither Stafford or Cutler get that call (Teddy B could have had his head ripped out and they don't call it).

    Big Ben doesn't get that call. Joe Flacco doesn't get that call. Even if they are superbowl winning vetrean QBs.

    Neither Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton or Cam Newton (3 of the best QBs right now) get that call.

    Brady and the Peyton do get that call. Eli get's that call against the Patriots.

    This is like Basketball, the true stars get calls other don't. I saw it against the Bears last week, and I saw it last night.
    “Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.”
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Williams View Post
    College replays every targeting call. There is precedent, and facemask would/should be easy.

    And if we're going to have replay, why not just have the booth buzz down? Give the coaches one challenge, but give the booth the opportunity to buzz on every play.

    mentioned this in the Bengals section yesterday. I'd like to see helmet-to-helmet calls reviewable like they are in college. If they want to include facemask penalties in that too, ok.

  4. #14
       
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    issue with the college review of targeting is, they can't overturn the Personal Foul Penalty, even if the replay shows that there was no foul! All they review is should the player be ejected or not.

    Full time officials are not the answer, however there should be an additional "administration official" on the field who runs the official clock, and is the back-up official for ref injuries...why the hell are there no back-up officials?

    At issue is technology now allows us to watch, re-watch, and see every mistake 40 million times and discuss it ad nauseum. In the old days (get off my lawn!!!), it was just the fans who were there who knew they got jobbed by the refs, now everyone sees it.

    In regards to correct calls on the field, the 4.5% is used a lot, and I guess my question is this: 0% error is not realistic, so what is your realistic ref error? 5% error on the typical 150-200 plays a game is 7-10 plays where there are errors. Is that not unreasonable for the speed at which this game is played?
    "Make sure you come to the game day chat to see my feeble attempts at typing there, it's abhorrent. "
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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragar View Post
    issue with the college review of targeting is, they can't overturn the Personal Foul Penalty, even if the replay shows that there was no foul! All they review is should the player be ejected or not.

    Full time officials are not the answer, however there should be an additional "administration official" on the field who runs the official clock, and is the back-up official for ref injuries...why the hell are there no back-up officials?

    At issue is technology now allows us to watch, re-watch, and see every mistake 40 million times and discuss it ad nauseum. In the old days (get off my lawn!!!), it was just the fans who were there who knew they got jobbed by the refs, now everyone sees it.

    In regards to correct calls on the field, the 4.5% is used a lot, and I guess my question is this: 0% error is not realistic, so what is your realistic ref error? 5% error on the typical 150-200 plays a game is 7-10 plays where there are errors. Is that not unreasonable for the speed at which this game is played?

    not true. I've seen them pick up the flag.

  6. #16
       
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    I had a lot to say on officiating and on these kinds of topics over in the comments section of the Water Cooler article a few days ago, so I won't repeat myself here, but a couple things:

    (1) Bengals is right. Refs can now pick up targeting flags as well as remove the ejection.

    (2) Targeting is the only quasi-judgment penalty that can be removed in college football. I assume this is because an ejection is mandatory for the offense in college football, something the NFL does not do and I'm sure because of roster limitations would never do.

    (3) I agree with Rich absolutely. You should pay people who work for you. If you want cheerleaders--and basically every team except like the Browns, Bears, Packers, and Steelers does--because you think they add value to the presentation of the game, then you should pay them.

    (3a) Unpaid internships, also, should be illegal. I'm tired of platforms and networking being an excuse not to compensate people with something real and commensurate to the value they actually add to a business or organization. Making people start out at that level, by the way, is almost certainly going to make them more accepting of conditions or workloads they should not tolerate throughout the rest of their careers. And if your business cannot survive without unpaid labor, then this society does not need your business and it will be replaced by one that can pay all its workers.

    (3b) I bring this up because this is so not the case with the NFL that it's preposterous that this even has to be discussed. Considering the workload the officials are being asked to take on, it makes perfect sense to compensate them as full-time employees; if I remember correctly, the NFL wanted officials to become full-time employees during the last strike, but referees' union opposed it because the number wasn't right. What the NFL can pay for, as well, is a better way to discipline referees who make mistakes on the job, because money cures a lot of problems when negotiating collective bargaining agreements.

    (4) I admire Biggie's stiff upper lip about all this. Part of me says, if you have a twenty point lead at home in the second half or nine point lead inside of five minutes to play, then no matter what happens, it's pretty much your fault that you lost. That said...

    (5) It should not have been a penalty. I agree with Brian in that I do not understand the logic behind, 'Well, it's wrong, but we're comfortable with that because it will be wrong every time.' The fact that Rodgers is a quarterback here really shouldn't matter, by the way, because he's received a lateral and is now a ball carrier. I think the fact that the original penalty is called 'roughing the passer'--as opposed to the quarterback--is instructive here, because we're protecting a player that has put himself in a very precarious and vulnerable position; he is limited in his range of motion, if he wishes to remain a passer, in that he cannot cross the line of scrimmage, and the act of throwing uses his entire body, opening it up to potential injury and making it difficult to protect himself. He should not be hit unnecessarily after this act, which is dangerous enough.

    (5a) That said, Rodgers is no longer a passer in this equation. Would they have called this penalty if the ball carrier had been, say, a wide receiver or a runningback? Possibly, but I doubt we would get the vacuous 'every time' justification and I'm not sure it would be as excused as it has been.

    (6) I don't get the 'player should have gone ballistic' argument. This does not typically cause referees to pick up a flag. It also suggests that a response, which might just be the mark of composed and mild-mannered personality, is an indication of guilt, which is pretty bad reasoning and ought not to be used.

    (7) I don't want more replay. When replay is proposed as a solution, I think we forget that it's failed to solve many of the problems it was intended to correct up to this point.

    (8) Shrug.
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  7. #17
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Williams View Post
    College replays every targeting call. There is precedent, and facemask would/should be easy.

    And if we're going to have replay, why not just have the booth buzz down? Give the coaches one challenge, but give the booth the opportunity to buzz on every play.
    Man, I don't know. Some of the replay delays in college football are just frustrating as hell. Things that don't need to be reviewed take like five minutes, and I have no idea how half of the replay decisions are made anymore.
    Follow me on twitter @kocsan.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Sullivan View Post
    1. Up 20-0 at home? Sack up and win.
    2. Never touch a quarterback above his shoulder pads. Ever.
    3. If your opponent is throwing a Hail Mary, your ****ing guys should not be the ****ing guys standing in the back half of the end zone.


    I hope Mrs. Ford is spitting fire right now. She should be.

    Go Lions.
    Ahh. Last night's game was the Caldwell Bot in full force.

  9. #19
    this poor guy...



    Dante@DanteTheDon 1h1 hour ago
    Might be the pic of the year




  10. #20
       
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    Glad to know that they changed the college rule, as of the three previous times i had seen the ejection overturned, 2 were not penalties so the targeting was removed but the penalty was still enforced.

    (Research says it was modified during last year season in the middle of the season, missed that one)
    "Make sure you come to the game day chat to see my feeble attempts at typing there, it's abhorrent. "
    or as gobig calls it "Ragaring"

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