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Thread: Who Are YOU Watching - 2017

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Baraka View Post
    Apparently alleycat's thoughts are of some guy who was related to a former Bengal.

    But I'd bet both Taylor and Henderson are not available in the 4th round. We shouldn't let fanspeak mocks color our evaluations.
    It's the small school thing plus the position.

    As I said, I'm a fan of Henderson. I watched him inlare December because I'm a stats/metrics junky and iirc he had the most ypc in college football it was clear he outclassed his comp but therein lies the rub. He doesn't have great size and you have to wonder what he's going to do when he goes up against longer guys with his speed.

    IMO this is where the senior bowl, but even the combine come in handy. Let's see what he looks like running the route tree, not just a couple of routes where he's struggling with an inferior an getting him the ball (and often waiting up for deep balls etc).

  2. #12
    Speaking of small school....I was messing with a mock when I realized too late I had ignored the LB position. Draftscout had this guy ranked top150.

    ILB - Conner Harris, Linwood College, 6'0" 240. Short but thickly built, instinctive, and fast. Does what small school guys have to do to stand out. Dominates. Runs the 40 in 4.56. Just broke Boomer Grigson's All time NCAA record for most career tackles. Loves contact. Not a drag down tackler. Looks like a skinhead but has a boy scouts reputation. Wants to be a cop after football. Told by scouts he doesn't need to stand out at the combine, but does need to look like he belongs.

    Might be a nice late round LB pickup.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by HOF View Post
    Speaking of small school....I was messing with a mock when I realized too late I had ignored the LB position. Draftscout had this guy ranked top150.

    ILB - Conner Harris, Linwood College, 6'0" 240. Short but thickly built, instinctive, and fast. Does what small school guys have to do to stand out. Dominates. Runs the 40 in 4.56. Just broke Boomer Grigson's All time NCAA record for most career tackles. Loves contact. Not a drag down tackler. Looks like a skinhead but has a boy scouts reputation. Wants to be a cop after football. Told by scouts he doesn't need to stand out at the combine, but does need to look like he belongs.

    Might be a nice late round LB pickup.
    I've had him in a couple of my mocks --- all post senior bowl which was the first time I ever heard of him much less watch him play. He was decisive down hill but the most impressive thing to me was how quick and instinctive he was getting out to the flat in pass defense. I remember one play in particular where he had a tfl covering a RB that made me say "wow."

  4. #14
    DE Derek Barnett- Tennessee

    Watched: 2016: Nebraska, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Texas A&M



    Wow, where to begin. Barnett is a very good, potentially elite, speed rusher. Surprising stout against the run and setting the edge, which will appeal to the Bengals. Arguably one of the best "dip under and around the tackle" moves I've ever seen from a non rush LB.

    As good as a speed rusher as he is, he doesn't have much else yet. For as strong as he is against the run, he doesn't really have a bull rush. He also doesn't really have a swim move, though he has the skill set to develop a pretty good one IMO.

    I think what sticks out to me most, is that he's not even close to reaching his potential yet. For as good of an athlete as he is, he's only really using 1 pass rush move so far. He has more than enough athleticism to develop a killer spin move, a pretty good swim move, and an inside speed move. Didn't drop into coverage much, but certainly wasn't lost when he did. A drawback is, he was almost exclusively a RDE as opposed to say McDowell who played all 4 spots.

    Right now though, he's only relying on the outside spin move to get around the tackle. He only succeeds with it probably 25% of the time though, which isn't necessarily a bad percentage. The problem with this move though, is that your long tackles can just push you wide and deep and away from the QB, even if you get by them. This is something Andre Smith was very good at. Smith certainly had his struggles with speed rushers, but typically he was able to shove them so that they rushed wide and deep and behind the QB. Smith struggled when those speed rushers also used a power move.

    So as compared to say Malik McDowell, I'd say that McDowell is a more complete player right now, but Barnett has a higher ceiling. Barnett also has something else; a skillset that the Bengals don't currently have on the roster.


    What it really comes down to is how much you trust Burney and Guenther. If you trust them to teach Barnett to use his elite athleticism in more than one way, you have a guy who can become an All-Pro defensive player.
    Last edited by Bengals1181; 04-25-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    DE Derek Bennett- Tennessee

    Watched: 2016: Nebraska, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Texas A&M



    Wow, where to begin. Barnett is a very good, potentially elite, speed rusher. Surprising stout against the run and setting the edge, which will appeal to the Bengals. Arguably one of the best "dip under and around the tackle" moves I've ever seen from a non rush LB.

    As good as a speed rusher as he is, he doesn't have much else yet. For as strong as he is against the run, he doesn't really have a bull rush. He also doesn't really have a swim move, though he has the skill set to develop a pretty good one IMO.

    I think what sticks out to me most, is that he's not even close to reaching his potential yet. For as good of an athlete as he is, he's only really using 1 pass rush move so far. He has more than enough athleticism to develop a killer spin move, a pretty good swim move, and an inside speed move. Didn't drop into coverage much, but certainly wasn't lost when he did. A drawback is, he was almost exclusively a RDE as opposed to say McDowell who played all 4 spots.

    Right now though, he's only relying on the outside spin move to get around the tackle. He only succeeds with it probably 25% of the time though, which isn't necessarily a bad percentage. The problem with this move though, is that your long tackles can just push you wide and deep and away from the QB, even if you get by them. This is something Andre Smith was very good at. Smith certainly had his struggles with speed rushers, but typically he was able to shove them so that they rushed wide and deep and behind the QB. Smith struggled when those speed rushers also used a power move.

    So as compared to say Malik McDowell, I'd say that McDowell is a more complete player right now, but Barnett has a higher ceiling. Barnett also has something else; a skillset that the Bengals don't currently have on the roster.


    What it really comes down to is how much you trust Burney and Guenther. If you trust them to teach Barnett to use his elite athleticism in more than one way, you have a guy who can become an All-Pro defensive player.
    Whelp, you've seen the move. The one place I think your analysis would get questioned is on the notion of him being a speed rusher or having elite athleticism. That's the current knock on him. I personally think he'll post some extraordinary agility numbers, simply because of that uncanny knack he has for dipping and cutting 90 degrees toward the QB. That has to come from somewhere.

    But people are expecting pedestrian explosion and speed times from him. If that's not the case, if he shows that he does, in fact, somehow have elite metrics in those areas, then there really won't be much of an argument against him. IMO, the combine is as big for him as anyone else.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by alleycat View Post
    Whelp, you've seen the move. The one place I think your analysis would get questioned is on the notion of him being a speed rusher or having elite athleticism. That's the current knock on him. I personally think he'll post some extraordinary agility numbers, simply because of that uncanny knack he has for dipping and cutting 90 degrees toward the QB. That has to come from somewhere.

    But people are expecting pedestrian explosion and speed times from him. If that's not the case, if he shows that he does, in fact, somehow have elite metrics in those areas, then there really won't be much of an argument against him. IMO, the combine is as big for him as anyone else.


    I think he's a little deceiving. The way he rushes reminds you of a 3-4 OLB, but plays as a 4-3 DE. I think he's very athletic for a 4-3 DE, but wouldn't necessarily be elite for a 3-4 OLB. If that makes sense.



    One more thing to add, I also think he'd be very good for a team that runs stunts and twists (which IMO the Bengls don't do nearly enough. We play far too much straight up rushes).

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    One more thing to add, I also think he'd be very good for a team that runs stunts and twists (which IMO the Bengls don't do nearly enough. We play far too much straight up rushes).
    That might be an argument against him for us. Marvin defenses don't run a whole lot of games, because games expose you to getting gashed if the offense picks the right play (say, running to the hole you're abandoning). We like to play straight up as you say, and that's why you frankly need elite players who can beat their man one-on-one...and do it fast, which, of course, is the big thing we've been missing forever.

    I don't think Barnett necessarily gets there on explosive speed, but because of that uncanny move (which, by all appearances, the best Tackles in the SEC couldn't beat), he does get there fast. I've written it many times before this draft season, but I consider Barnett one of the truly mystifying guys to come out this year. I personally hope he kills it in the combine, because that would make him an easy and obvious pick if he were there for me (my fingers are hovering above the keyboard, waiting to punch numbers into the Waldo formula, haha).

  8. #18
    I think Dwiight Freeney is a good comparison of what Barnett COULD be.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    I think Dwiight Freeney is a good comparison of what Barnett COULD be.
    Freeney ran a 4.38 coming out. I don't think Barnett has anywhere near that type of straight line speed.

    Edit: I could swear I've heard the 4.38 number with him, but Freeney's official combine time was a 4.48. Still blazing fast and probably way better than Barnett. Freeney was an absolute physical freak (also a 40' vertical) coming out of college.

    Edit 2: The 4.38 was Freeney's reported pro day time: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/14/sp...t-freeney.html
    Last edited by happyrid; 03-03-2017 at 09:36 AM.

  10. #20
    YEah, and that's the freakish speed that I don't think Barnett comes within a mile of. If he ran a 4.6 he'd be a lock top 5 pick.

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