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Thread: Edge rushers

  1. #1

    Edge rushers

    Interesting article on edge rushers. Confirms what I am thinking about trading down from 9 if Thomas is gone. I don't want Allen or Barnett.

    http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-n...17-edge-class/

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengalbro View Post
    Interesting article on edge rushers. Confirms what I am thinking about trading down from 9 if Thomas is gone. I don't want Allen or Barnett.

    http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-n...17-edge-class/
    That graph shows what I've been talking about. So much hype for this draft class but one of the most unathletic in a long time. Garrett and Thomas are the easy choices. Watt is all potential, and like Willis, doesn't look as fluid as his combine tests imply, so there's risk.

    FWIW, Charlton, Hall, and Wise are all excluded from that group, and pretty much have better charts than all but the few mentioned. Hendrickson isn't mentioned either but I have to believe that his alligator arms win him permanent LB status.

    I'm going to wait on Barnett's Pro-day until I pass final judgment on him, but for now, I'd definitely take him post-trade down. Same goes for Charlton, or really another 10 guys.

  3. #3
    What's not to like about Barnett and Allen? The analysis confirms what they aren't and then praises what they are. Describes Barnett perfectly, pros and cons, and predicts he'll be a productive pro. Oh, and after a few criticisms absolutely gushes about Allen, saying even if he's not who most people thought he was he's still very worthy of a Top15 pick. Describes a player whose more of a 286lb 4-3 DE than previously thought. Said he may be limited to a role that seems perfect for the Bengals, a 2-down DE who kicks inside on 3rd downs.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by alleycat View Post
    FWIW, Charlton, Hall, and Wise are all excluded from that group, and pretty much have better charts than all but the few mentioned. Hendrickson isn't mentioned either but I have to believe that his alligator arms win him permanent LB status.
    There's some interesting notes about Hall and Basham at the end of the article. I totally agree with the rant about Hall being too focused with inside pass rush moves. I wrote a little about it months ago...now this guy says he was coached that way. Claims he's capable of doing more and is working with other coaches to develop more outside moves.

    As for the guys in the breakdown, if you make me pick by numbers I'm going to keep pointing to Rivers. Best, I think he's a football player too. Sadly, I think a 3-4 team is going to love him most, and I cringe at the idea of him wearing black and urine.

    Last, the review of Kpassagnon confirms what I was seeing at the combine and explains why I've cooled so much. Unless he slips into the later rounds I'm not in the mood to support another Margus Hunt syle project.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by HOF View Post
    There's some interesting notes about Hall and Basham at the end of the article. I totally agree with the rant about Hall being too focused with inside pass rush moves. I wrote a little about it months ago...now this guy says he was coached that way. Claims he's capable of doing more and is working with other coaches to develop more outside moves.

    As for the guys in the breakdown, if you make me pick by numbers I'm going to keep pointing to Rivers. Best, I think he's a football player too. Sadly, I think a 3-4 team is going to love him most, and I cringe at the idea of him wearing black and urine.

    Last, the review of Kpassagnon confirms what I was seeing at the combine and explains why I've cooled so much. Unless he slips into the later rounds I'm not in the mood to support another Margus Hunt syle project.
    For me it's Kpass's agility. Just sooo bad, and if there's one thing that correlates to success with DEs, especially those that lack enough power, it's agility (3 cone and 20 yard shuttle). On the flip side, I have to confess to being just a little bit intrigued by the notion of putting 20-30 more lbs on him and putting him at DT. From a pure numbers perspective he's already got a lot more power than say, Malik McDowell.

  6. #6
    Pass on Kpass.

    At DL I'd prefer Thomas first but I'd gladly take Allen or Barnett as "consolation" prizes. Or one of the top safeties. Or Reuben, who I still like best but I wonder how the Bengals view him.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengalbro View Post
    Interesting article on edge rushers. Confirms what I am thinking about trading down from 9 if Thomas is gone. I don't want Allen or Barnett.

    http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-n...17-edge-class/
    The problem is there probably isn't going to be anyone who wants to trade up. After the top handful of guys, it's the same type of talent from like #7 through #25.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by happyrid View Post
    The problem is there probably isn't going to be anyone who wants to trade up. After the top handful of guys, it's the same type of talent from like #7 through #25.
    Thats impossible to know. Someone might love a QB or Fournette and want to jump in front of Browns.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengalbro View Post
    Thats impossible to know. Someone might love a QB or Fournette and want to jump in front of Browns.
    QB is the only realistic hope for a decent trade down offer IMO. I'll have my fingers crossed, but it seems like it's going to be a tough market for any team trying to find a partner to move down.

    Other teams are looking at the same guys on the board as we are here. Doubt anyone is going to look at Derek Barnett, Taco Charlton or whoever and feel like they want to give up an extra valuable 2nd round pick to move up for him when there are going to be similar talents available in the middle of the round. Especially since so many of these positions are really deep into the mid-rounds.

    It reminds me of the 2013 draft where the top of the class was extremely light on talent and everyone in the top 10 was looking to move down and teams were taking way less than the trade chart would typically dictate to move down (Miami moved from like 15 to 3 for a mid-2nd for example).

  10. #10
    Just some thoughts:

    Hobson just listed two DEs as something to seek out in this draft.

    I believe that DE is presently the most glaring need on the team (yup, even with the OL). We never take fewer than 4, and right now we have a maximum of 3 true DEs on the team. If you count a swing DT guy (Gilberry), that's 2 spots. And if you count going light at LB and having a swing guy there, that could even be three. (If you count MJ as being a waste of space (both physical and cap-wise) that'd be 4 haha).

    Personally, I'd like to come out of this draft with preferably both Daeshon Hall and Deatrich Wise. I'd happily replace one of the two with a Derek Rivers or TJ Watt (or hell, Taco Charlton or Derek Barnett). But from a value perspective, I don't think we could do better.

    The article above has some interesting information about both.

    Wise was pegged as a first rounder going into the season, had a foot injury that plagued him all last year, but he was also asked to do the tackle-read thing that infuriates so many of us here. Both of those explain a lot. The good news is he has that discipline. He's also a high character, go all the time player. But I urge any of you, if you haven't, to go back and watch his 2015 tape on draftbreakdown. Just one minute of each of these games (both 2+ sack games):

    http://draftbreakdown.com/video/deat...r-vs-lsu-2015/

    http://draftbreakdown.com/video/deat...missouri-2015/

    And as Hair pointed out, Hall being asked to crash inside is also telling. Some other interesting notes about Hall. His 3-cone time has changed from post-combine to what is now currently listed. He was listed as 7.27, and it's now listed as 7.03. I hadn't caught that until now. Three-one hundredths off of that time and he is a Waldo low risk (twitch) (Wise clocked a 7.07, and would also qualifiy by getting to 7.0). However, his 20 yard shuttle got worse. He also is 10lbs less than Wise (and Charlton).

    Charlton's numbers are similar, but a little worse than both guys. He's got more polish/technique. But he's also got the shortest arms of the 3. He's also got much less power.

    Right now, Wise looks like the best athlete, followed by Hall, then Charlton. Given that the former two are expected to be available in the 3rd, I'm personally comfortable waiting on our most important spot until then (but then I'd go back to back with both of them haha).

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