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Thread: Charlton v Barnett v Allen

  1. #21
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOF View Post
    FWIW back in Feb. Cincy Jungle writer John Sheeren did a very solid Bengal specific video breakdown of Barnett. Well worth the time IMO. He was pretty critical of him overall but ultimately said he'd be a good pick...at #41.

    He's also done Taco, Charles Harris, and Solomon Thomas, the latter being described as the ideal pick, Sadly, he hasn't done Joanthan Allen yet, probably because of the poor odds of him falling to #9.
    I don't think it's that unlikely he falls. He also probably hasn't done him yet because he is a horrible fit.

  2. #22
    I'm with the anti-Allen at 9 faction. I just don't see where he makes a big impact in our defense.

    How many 4-3 DEs that couldn't crack 5.0 at the combine and showed awful explosiveness are productive pass rushers in the NFL? Maybe there are some guys (would love to discuss some examples if they exist), but I can't think of any.

    At DT, I don't see holding up as an every down guy. He's only 286 pounds and isn't particularly strong either. The guy next to Geno has to stand up to regular double teams and Allen won't fare well if we put him in that role.

    For us, I think he's "just a guy" on 1st-2nd downs at DE. Good power, but he'll have a tough time trying to chase down guys like Le'Veon Bell on outside runs. He should be a nice asset on 3rd downs as a nickel pass rushing DT next to Geno. At 9, I don't really see it.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by happyrid View Post
    I'm with the anti-Allen at 9 faction. I just don't see where he makes a big impact in our defense.

    How many 4-3 DEs that couldn't crack 5.0 at the combine and showed awful explosiveness are productive pass rushers in the NFL? Maybe there are some guys (would love to discuss some examples if they exist), but I can't think of any.

    At DT, I don't see holding up as an every down guy. He's only 286 pounds and isn't particularly strong either. The guy next to Geno has to stand up to regular double teams and Allen won't fare well if we put him in that role.

    For us, I think he's "just a guy" on 1st-2nd downs at DE. Good power, but he'll have a tough time trying to chase down guys like Le'Veon Bell on outside runs. He should be a nice asset on 3rd downs as a nickel pass rushing DT next to Geno. At 9, I don't really see it.
    Another big strike against him were that Robinson and Reed were similarly hyped last year, then fell on draft day and didn't make huge impacts. I think Allen is a better player than both, though.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by alleycat View Post
    Another big strike against him were that Robinson and Reed were similarly hyped last year, then fell on draft day and didn't make huge impacts. I think Allen is a better player than both, though.
    Yeah, both got 2 sacks or less and had awful overall grades from PFF, especially against the run.

    It seems like 95% of the defenders coming out of Alabama are described pre-draft as monsters against the run (including Reed and Robinson). Then they get to the pros and the elite run-stopping ability isn't there for most of them, especially the ones who test out as marginal athletes. We've seen this enough times to start to recognize that Alabama's defense is extremely deep with 11 NFL-caliber starters and some NFL backups and extremely well-coached. It shouldn't be a surprise that as a team they dominate against the run. A lot harder to determine if that translates to the next level with any of the individual cogs of the machine though.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by alleycat View Post
    Another big strike against him were that Robinson and Reed were similarly hyped last year, then fell on draft day and didn't make huge impacts. I think Allen is a better player than both, though.
    I don't think hype has anything to do with it. I don't think I uttered a positive word about either of those guys last year, and wasn't a bit surprised when they fell. Same for Billings. If last years draft proved anything it may have been that all traditional DT prospects are overrated. And there's the rub because Reed and Robinson are both about 25-30 pounds heavier than Allen and had none of his versatility. In fact, I'm pretty sure both ran much slower than Billings, a glorified NT.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by HOF View Post
    I don't think hype has anything to do with it. I don't think I uttered a positive word about either of those guys last year, and wasn't a bit surprised when they fell. Same for Billings. If last years draft proved anything it may have been that all traditional DT prospects are overrated. And there's the rub because Reed and Robinson are both about 25-30 pounds heavier than Allen and had none of his versatility. In fact, I'm pretty sure both ran much slower than Billings, a glorified NT.
    Waldo is meant for edge rushers, but it's extremely useful for DTs if you look at how those guys turn out historically. In fact, I'd think a little analysis could result in numbers that would have equivalent analytical success for DTs - they'd just be different. But one thing that's already clear is that the power the top guys have this year is WAY less than the top guys who've gone onto success in previous years. Power plus agility. Those are your ideals.

    Of the guys who've tested so far (basically going off Combine numbers) the top guys are:

    Elijah Qualls
    Larry Ogunjobi
    DJ Jones

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