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Thread: Roster and Team Bengals V Brown

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    The last five Browns drafts have yielded 2 quality starters, 3 first round picks no longer on the team and two more first round picks currently considered disappointments.
    When did the current GM take over?

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason_NC View Post
    When did the current GM take over?
    January 2016

  3. #13
    Browns, Bengals offensive lines on different spectrums

    • Gabriel Burns Staff Writer

    3:45 p.m Tuesday, June 27, 2017 Sports


    Larry French/Getty Images

    The Browns’ and Bengals’ offensive lines couldn’t be much different.

    One is arguably the league’s best on paper, the other is a work in progress. One is the result of a spending spree, the other was victimized by free agency.

    Pro Football Focus ranked the NFL’s offensive lines heading into the 2017 season. The Browns came in second, while the Bengals sank to 31st.

    Philadelphia beat Cleveland out for the top spot, but optimism is high for the Browns unit.

    “The offseason free agent spending spree could pay off huge dividends in Cleveland,” PFF said. “J.C. Tretter and Kevin Zeitler both bring well above-average grades from a season ago at center and guard, respectively. The only question mark comes at right tackle where Shon Coleman looked at least competent in his 62 snaps as a rookie.”

    Coleman is competing with Cameron Erving for the right tackle job, but the rest of the offensive line is set. Joe Thomas is PFF’s second most efficient pass blocker since 2012. Keitler and Joel Bitonio might be the best guard duo in the league.

    Quarterback is an uncertainty, but whoever’s back there should receive plenty of protection.

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    Cincinnati became a perineal playoff contender behind its usually strong offensive line. But losing Andrew Whitworth and Zeitler is hard to overcome, at least in one offseason.

    PFF isn’t impressed by the Bengals’ new look line. Only Seattle was rated worse.

    “No line can lose two Pro Bowl-caliber players and expect to still perform at a high level,” PFF said. “This is especially true for the Bengals who look completely at a loss to fill the shoes of left tackle Andrew Whitworth and right guard Kevin Zeitler. The loss may be felt the most at tackle where the drafted replacements – Jake Fisher and Cedric Ogbuehi – have looked lost anytime they’ve seen the field.”

    If the Bengals return to the playoffs in 2017, the offensive line must outperform that expectation. That starts and ends with Fisher and Ogbuehi. If it fails, letting two elite lineman walk for nothing will be justifiably criticized.

  4. #14
    Any team that has Cameron Erving vying for a starting spot can't be considered elite, IMO. He is terrible.

    And I think it's hyperbole to say that Ced and Fisher have looked lost anytime they've been on the field. I mean, they have definitely had their share of struggles, but I've also seen some positives even as they have had issues. I expect them to be significantly better this year... at least adequate, and maybe (hopefully) more. They have reportedly gotten a lot stronger and having a lot of reps this spring will only help.

    That said, it's very fair to say that the line is one of the worst in the league - on paper. Here's hoping that they develop nicely as a unit because if so, this offense can be really explosive this fall.

  5. #15
    Browns only really win on O-line... But Jackson is one of the few coaches I would not swap out for Marvin.

  6. #16
    I don't get how we aren't just loading up on veteran free agents to try to find a gem. They don't all have to get a starting spot. They don't all have to make the team. But I'd sign 2-3 guys with starting experience tomorrow. Ryan Clady, Orlando Franklin, Nick Mangold.

    We have 18 Million in cap space. I just don't see the argument for not doing it.

    The difference between

    LT Ogbouehi 2019 Lechler 2019
    LG Boling 2019 Redmond 2018 Dielman 2020
    C Bodine 2017 Johnson 2018 Stanton 2019
    RG Smith 2017 Westerman 2019 Hopkins 2018 Perkins 2019
    RT Fisher 2018 Winston 2017


    LT Ogbouehi 2019 Clady 2017 Lechler 2019
    LG Boling 2019 Franklin 2017 Dielman 2020 Redmond 2018
    C Bodine 2017 Mangold 2017 Johnson 2018 Stanton 2019
    RG Smith 2017 Westerman 2019 Hopkins 2018 Perkins 2019
    RT Fisher 2018 Winston 2017

    Might just be the playoffs.

  7. #17
    They are already at the Max roster limit

  8. #18
    Then cut some players. A potential starting lt is worth more to the team then a seventh te
    Last edited by Bengalbro; 06-30-2017 at 07:54 AM.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengalbro View Post
    Then cut some players. A potential starting lt is worth more to the team then a seventh te
    it's never as simple as you like to make it.Why are these guys still on the street (hint, they all have bad injury histories)? 31 other teams haven't signed them either. Further, signing them now guarantees their salary for the entire year. So signing them now gives a guy who is new to your system with an extensive injury history a guaranteed contract whether he makes the team or not. It basically becomes dead money that hinders your ability to re-sign part of your core players.Some of the guys you list were also benched or moved positions on their former team. So while they are former starters, they aren't necessary potential starters.That said, I'd be interested in Clady at some point. It would be a vet minimum or slightly higher deal at the right time though, and it seems right now isn't the right time or one of the 31 other teams would have signed him.

  10. #20

    Bengals A Cautionary Tale?

    Bengals A Cautionary Tale?

    JARED MUELLERYesterday at 5:48 AM

    While teams often build their teams to compete with the top of their division, could the Browns be using one of the AFC North's top teams as a cautionary tale?
    Since the 2011 NFL Draft, the Cincinnati Bengals have had only one losing season, last year at 6-9-1.

    Since the 2011 NFL Draft, the Cleveland Browns best season had seven wins.

    On the field, there is no comparison between the two teams. The Bengals have competed for division titles while the Browns have competed for high draft picks, dysfunction awards and the loss of hope among fans.

    Even this morning an OBR alumni, the awesome Don Delco, showed the frustration common among fans:

    29 Jun
    Jared Mueller @JaredKMueller

    @DonDelco Can I have a little hope?


    Don Delco @DonDelco

    @JaredKMueller Fine because it's still June. I don't because I'm too old, too beaten down and too grumpy from 30+ years of being disappointed by that team.
    5:32 AM - 29 Jun 2017

    While most teams try to build themselves to compete with the top of their division, which for the Browns has been all three of the other teams, it seems like the Browns may need to instead use the Bengals as a cautionary tale.

    Maybe they already have.

    With former Bengal Offensive Coordinator Hue Jackson as the Head Coach, the link between the two teams will always be easy. There isn't the same link, currently, between the Browns and either the Ravens or Steelers.

    So why are the Bengals, with their consistency over the last few years, a cautionary tale?

    First, let us start with character. The Bengals are known to take chances on players with character red flags, so much so that it was widely assumed they would be the team to take a chance on RB Joe Mixon. The sense you got from Bengals legend Anthony Munoz when he had to announce the pick was one of anger and frustration.

    If you know Munoz, you understand why this kind of pick doesn't fit for him.

    The Bengals should have known as well. Their history includes arrest after arrest including Adam Jones who they just keep no matter what. On the field, these character issues also seem to crop up, sometimes at the worst times. Jones and Vontaze Burfict cost the Bengals a playoff win, against rival Steelers none the less, with personal fouls.

    The Browns have already shown that they are not very interested in character issues. So far, the new regime's biggest "risk" addition was Caleb Brantley in the 6th Round. After the pick, Sashi Brown made it clear the team was willing to cut Brantley if anything changed for the negative in his criminal case.

    While not stated, one can assume that the Browns, and Hue in particular, are cautious about players based on their character after what the Bengals have experienced over the years.
    So far so good on learning from the Bengals mistakes.

    Yet, some would say that any good team should mitigate their risks with character players. That this isn't unique to the Browns nor can we directly correlate the Bengals mistakes and the Browns direction when it comes to players.


    So how else can the Browns use the Bengals as a cautionary tale?

    You may have wondered why the Bengals record is noted "since the 2011 NFL Draft" at the start of this article?

    Andy Dalton!

    Dalton and Head Coach Marvin Lewis have been two of the biggest constants during the Bengals successful run yet are also a warning. While Lewis has been okay as a coach, his inability to adjust, to hold his players accountable and to motivate seems to limit his team.

    Based on Jackson's personality and short history, none of these three seem like a concern.

    Dalton on the other hand is. Under his watch the Bengals had made the Playoffs in 5 straight years, ending last year, but have never made it out of the Wild Card Round. While there are a lot of reasons this has happened, as noted above discipline and Marvin Lewis are two of those, Dalton is the big cautionary tale for the Browns.

    The Bengals have been very patient with Dalton, for good reason. He has thrown for over 3,200 yards every season since entering the league and, for those who believe in "QB Wins" as a stat, is 56-35-2.

    However, Dalton's been the head of one of the best, and at least for a season THE best, roster in all of the NFL and still can't get it done. His failures in big games is closing in on legendary at this point, yet the Bengals have stuck with him.

    For Browns fans, competing for the division for 5 out of 6 seasons seems like a dream but for the franchise it should be a warning.

    The Browns are trying to build the best roster in football. They have stockpiled picks, started re-signing some of their own studs and have made quality additions in free agency and trades. With loads of picks still coming in years to come, the Browns could bat .500 on their picks and still boast one of the top rosters in the league.

    Just like the Bengals have under Dalton.

    Not good enough!

    At the quarterback position, the Browns have added 3rd Rounder Cody Kessler and 2nd Rounder DeShone Kizer. Kessler reminds many of Dalton in stature and football IQ while Kizer, who blows Dalton out of the water physically, shares being a 2nd Round pick with the red-headed Bengal.

    With Kessler and Kizer, the Browns need to find a balance between patience and aggressiveness. Kessler showed some positive signs as a rookie but has a long way to go while Kizer's college tape is full of concerns but his upside is through the roof. The Browns need to let both have a chance to show what they can do without rushing a decision on the future of the position.

    Few QBs are great early, even if a few have team success. Mr. Sure Thing, Andrew Luck has a less than 60% completion rate in his first 5 years in the league.

    Kessler and Kizer need time.

    Yet, the Bengals should teach the Browns to not settle at the position. Dalton's struggles to lead the best roster in the league could have been mitigated by the team drafting either Teddy Bridgewater or Derek Carr, something I recommended for both the Browns and the Bengals. The Browns ended up with the Johnny Manziel drama while the Bengals are still stuck with Dalton.

    Does that mean the Browns should draft a QB next year, in the 2018 NFL Draft, if Kessler and Kizer don't light it up? No, see note about it taking time and the team needing patience.
    On the other hand, after two (more) seasons as a starter, either Kessler or Kizer should show enough to prove whether they have the upside to be a part of carrying a roster or the downside of being the Dalton anchor to one of the best rosters in the league.

    The Bengals have been at or near the top of the AFC North since Dalton arrived in the 2011 NFL Draft.

    The Browns have been the worst team in the division every single one of those seasons.

    Yet the Browns should use the Bengals as a cautionary tale.


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