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Thread: The chase for #1

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange n Black View Post

    How come? OT is basically the worst position group on the team, it could very well end up being the perfect mix of value and need. Say we end up at #5, Tua/Young/Herbert are all off the board, and Andrew Thomas or someone similar is sitting there. Now your bookends are in place for 4+ years.

    I don't necessarily think the lefty-righty matters as much as just getting the best 5 guys out there.
    I like this scenario the best. Building an offensive line helps the entire offense. Then to make it ideal, be aggressive and trade back into the first round (late teens-32) and grab the next tier QB who can take the reins from Andy if we start 1-5 or can hit the ground running as the main man in 2021 if we were in playoff contention throughout 2020.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrlnutz View Post
    I like this scenario the best. Building an offensive line helps the entire offense. Then to make it ideal, be aggressive and trade back into the first round (late teens-32) and grab the next tier QB who can take the reins from Andy if we start 1-5 or can hit the ground running as the main man in 2021 if we were in playoff contention throughout 2020.
    In that scenario I’d rather just stay out and start Finley in 2020 and be bad again and position ourselves for Lawrence or maybe even Justin fields.

    QBs outside the top 12 or so success rate drops pretty hard. Id take one more bad year if it meant getting a true franchise stud.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange n Black View Post
    How come? OT is basically the worst position group on the team, it could very well end up being the perfect mix of value and need. Say we end up at #5, Tua/Young/Herbert are all off the board, and Andrew Thomas or someone similar is sitting there. Now your bookends are in place for 4+ years.

    I don't necessarily think the lefty-righty matters as much as just getting the best 5 guys out there.

    I just don't think you can continue to ignore the rest of the team. I agree with you that a strong oline makes everything easier. You have to draft and develop beyond first round though. You have a first rounder in Williams that you can put your hope in. I don't think you need to draft a right tackle in the first round.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    You have a first rounder in Williams that you can put your hope in. I don't think you need to draft a right tackle in the first round.
    They put their hopes in Jonah this season but sadly he was more interested in finding a way to get paid while rehabbing his existing shoulder injury. Besides, there was plenty of concern that he could actually play OLT before he was drafted. Plenty of NFL types wondered aloud if he wouldn't be better on the right or even at guard.

    Pointy being, if the Bengals do find themselves drafting in the top10 the could very easily find a better OLT prospect than Jonah Williams.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Bengals1181 View Post
    I don't think you need to draft a right tackle in the first round.
    Just to be clear, I agree with this. ORT normally isn't considered a premium position and they do have other needs.

    That said, it's freaking October and we're already talking about the draft. Way too early to start trimming down the short list or eliminating options.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JBandJoeyV View Post
    In that scenario I’d rather just stay out and start Finley in 2020 and be bad again and position ourselves for Lawrence or maybe even Justin fields.

    QBs outside the top 12 or so success rate drops pretty hard. Id take one more bad year if it meant getting a true franchise stud.
    I get what you mean, I just don't believe the bold is ever true. Never, in the history of the NFL, has picking first meant you RECEIVED the better player than the team picking second. The Org still has to ID the RIGHT guy...hence I'd prefer they spend the most premium of picks on a position with a less staggering bust rate and then make an "above normal" effort to go get a next tier QB.

    IMO the best thing any team can do is get a good prospect and then find out in 8-24 games that he is a franchise stud.

    Honestly do you, or anyone, actually believe that Patrick Mahomes would have single handedly overcome Hue Jackson and the Browns roster if they drafted him #1 overall in 2017 and started him from day one? I firmly believe his ceiling in that scenario is a "really good passer" who struggles with the offense at the NFL level considering the talent surrounding him and the scheme he would have had to play in. The Chiefs were coming off 4 straight playoff appearances, the Texans 2, when they ID'd the QB they wanted for the future and traded up for them. The Ravens traded up for the raw QB of the future. The 49ers traded for their QB of the future. The Eagles traded up for their QB of the future.

    Did the Rams "get" a true franchise stud in Goff...or are they finding themselves in a pickle after giving him that contract?
    I assume the Titans and Bucs are completely secure in their franchise stud QBs and on the verge of giving them enormous sums of money?
    The Bears?

    I believe the best way to "get a true franchise stud" is to build some sort of foundation FIRST, upon which the talented QB can thrive. I believe the traditional opinion of "get the QB THEN build the team" is flawed.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrlnutz View Post
    I get what you mean, I just don't believe the bold is ever true. Never, in the history of the NFL, has picking first meant you RECEIVED the better player than the team picking second. The Org still has to ID the RIGHT guy...hence I'd prefer they spend the most premium of picks on a position with a less staggering bust rate and then make an "above normal" effort to go get a next tier QB.

    IMO the best thing any team can do is get a good prospect and then find out in 8-24 games that he is a franchise stud.

    Honestly do you, or anyone, actually believe that Patrick Mahomes would have single handedly overcome Hue Jackson and the Browns roster if they drafted him #1 overall in 2017 and started him from day one? I firmly believe his ceiling in that scenario is a "really good passer" who struggles with the offense at the NFL level considering the talent surrounding him and the scheme he would have had to play in. The Chiefs were coming off 4 straight playoff appearances, the Texans 2, when they ID'd the QB they wanted for the future and traded up for them. The Ravens traded up for the raw QB of the future. The 49ers traded for their QB of the future. The Eagles traded up for their QB of the future.

    Did the Rams "get" a true franchise stud in Goff...or are they finding themselves in a pickle after giving him that contract?
    I assume the Titans and Bucs are completely secure in their franchise stud QBs and on the verge of giving them enormous sums of money?
    The Bears?

    I believe the best way to "get a true franchise stud" is to build some sort of foundation FIRST, upon which the talented QB can thrive. I believe the traditional opinion of "get the QB THEN build the team" is flawed.
    All valid. But to the same point of you thinking our FO may not be able to evaluate the true franchise QB, I don’t think they can build a championship caliber roster that we can use to supplement a second tier QB like an Andy dalton. I think that’s how you end up with a lot of early round playoff losses. I don’t trust that we’ll spend the money or make the draft picks to develop the kind of roster we need to succeed.

    I think the only way this franchise wins a super bowl is if they get (whether by luck or not) a true HoF caliber QB. A QB that will make our top players want to stay, that will make outside free agents want to come here, that will make coaches want to be here, and that will put butts in seats.

    Heck I think that’s the only reason why we had some success over the last 15 years, because we drafted A blue chip Carson Palmer and he revived the organization. If we don’t get Carson Palmer I think Marvin’s tenure ends before it gets to 5 years let alone 16. We turned into a somewhat stable franchise and even after Carson left we had enough talent to be okay with Andy dalton.

    So let zac and gang figure out who the next Stud is and do whatever it takes to go get him. If it’s Trevor Lawrence then draft BpA this year or even trade down to get extra picks and then purposely rank 2020 to get in position to get Lawrence (or I personally think Fields might play himself into the can’t miss 2021 prospect). I personally think that’s a better option then drafting the next Andy dalton (and I’ve been an Andy fan since day 1 I just don’t think he is the type of qb that can take this franchise to a super bowl cause of things outside his control). I think if you put Andy on the rams or something g he would win playoff games too. But the rams are playing by different rules than the bengals are.

    Sorry this was a lot of rambling but my main point is I think Trying to get a true top 5 qb gives them a better shot of winning a super bowl then drafting a Andy Dalton type second tier qb in the last first or second round.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrlnutz View Post
    Did the Rams "get" a true franchise stud in Goff...or are they finding themselves in a pickle after giving him that contract?
    I assume the Titans and Bucs are completely secure in their franchise stud QBs and on the verge of giving them enormous sums of money?
    The Bears?

    The Browns?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by HOF View Post
    The Browns?
    Yeah I mean I get that it doesn’t always work. But I think with our FO getting lucky and hitting on a HoF qb gives us a better shot then hoping they can build a contender around a second tier QB. Other franchises id prob argue the opposite.

    Lawrence has gotten Andrew Luck type praise, maybe even more. Him and Justin field were the top rated QB recruits of all time. Lawrence has struggled the last few weeks but still has a year and a half to prove himself and if he doesn’t I truly believe a guy like Justin Fields will show to be Deshaun Watson like.

    Hitting on one of those two guys can completely change this franchise. It can bring fans back. Might we miss? Sure. Prob better chance then not. Still think we have to take the chance.

    And in the mean time spend every other resource in the draft and free agency to build a contender around that QB by drafting/signing good OL and good defenders across the board.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JBandJoeyV View Post
    Yeah I mean I get that it doesn’t always work. But I think with our FO getting lucky and hitting on a HoF qb gives us a better shot then hoping they can build a contender around a second tier QB. Other franchises id prob argue the opposite.

    Lawrence has gotten Andrew Luck type praise, maybe even more. Him and Justin field were the top rated QB recruits of all time. Lawrence has struggled the last few weeks but still has a year and a half to prove himself and if he doesn’t I truly believe a guy like Justin Fields will show to be Deshaun Watson like.

    Hitting on one of those two guys can completely change this franchise. It can bring fans back. Might we miss? Sure. Prob better chance then not. Still think we have to take the chance.

    And in the mean time spend every other resource in the draft and free agency to build a contender around that QB by drafting/signing good OL and good defenders across the board.
    I mean, I guess I get this line of thinking but it's not something you can plan a strategy around. Are we really hopeless unless we just get lucky enough for the right prospect at the right time to fall into our laps and be great regardless of circumstances? It's a pipe dream and I'd rather this team had an achievable plan for success. To me, that's acquiring draft assets and retaining the quality young players they have - and in particular rebuilding the O line.

    They'll have a young QB on this team sooner rather than later, that I believe. But they don't need to blow a premium pick on a guy that doesn't justify it, just for a random lucky chance.
    ORANGE n BLACK

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