Cant deny the elephant in the room

**Colts01** · 01-24-2011, 10:58 PM

I hope even with the labor mess Peyton signs his last deal (probably) here and goes for at least one more super bowl.But when it comes to the playoffs the facts show he is more Marino then Montana.Seven one and done's is a big stat to me.http://www.indystar.com/section/Vide...iss|umbrella|2

**msclemons** · 01-24-2011, 11:42 PM

Manning has the same problem Marino had - no defense. Montana, Bradshaw, Unitas - they all had championship caliber defenses. The year the Colts won it all their defense played out of it's mind in the playoffs. I'm not sure that defense wins the Super Bowl but it sure seems to win playoff games (unless you're the Cardinals).

The Colts put all of their eggs in Manning's basket way back when Jim Mora Sr. was the coach. He's been fantastic but he can't do it alone.

**wxwax** · 01-25-2011, 01:17 AM

The flaw in this argument is that a lesser QB wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

Manning's being penalized for almost single-handedly dragging his not-very-good team to a winning record and the playoffs every year.

I think it's a crummy way to devalue one of the all-time greats.

**Pruitt** · 01-25-2011, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by wxwax

The flaw in this argument is that a lesser QB wouldn't even have made the playoffs.

Manning's being penalized for almost single-handedly dragging his not-very-good team to a winning record and the playoffs every year.

I think it's a crummy way to devalue one of the all-time greats.

Yes and no.

To a certain extent, you can compare Manning to Elway inasmuch as Elway spent years dragging a decent team into the playoffs. But for the longest time, the Broncos just weren't good enough to win it all.

However, it is not a "crummy way to devalue" Manning. It is simply looking at stats and commenting on them. As sports fans, that's what we do. No one doubts Manning's greatness, but unless he never throws a single interception, then he is not perfect.

**iwatt** · 01-25-2011, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by msclemons

Manning has the same problem Marino had - no defense.

False. That might have been true back in his early years (the Mora years). Since the Dungy years, they have ranked like this on Defense (Scoring)

Code:

Year	Scoring Def
2010	23
2009	8
2008	7
2007	1
2006	23
2005	2
2004	19
2003	20
2002	7

That's a 19.9 PPG, well below league average of 22 PPG average

By 2005 Dungy had the defensive players he wanted. By then they have had only 2 bad years (2010 marred by injuries), and 06, when the defense turned it on on the playoffs (16,25).

What's more, since 2002, in the playoffs the Colts Defense has allowed an average of 19,2 pts/Gm (that well below the league average of 22 pts/Gm).

They've also put alot of talent on the defensive side (Sanders, Mathis & Freeney are all elite players). The team has always had a good OL (except that for the last 2 years they've scapegoated them) because of brilliant drafting and signing of FA.

The truth of the matter is that Manning's performance in the playoffs doesn't match his performance in the regular season. His scoring in the playoffs has been 23,0 PPG. His scoring in the regular season in the same time has been 26,0 PPG.

So basically his defense has amped their game in the playoffs, while his offense hasn't.

**Pruitt** · 01-28-2011, 06:06 PM

I have to take issue with the labeling of Bob Sanders as an "elite" player. At this point, he is a nonentity. I know, I know, when he's on the field, he's great, but he's as helpful to the Colts right now as Eric Dickerson is.

**iwatt** · 01-29-2011, 12:23 PM

But he was DPotY. The last 2 years he has been injured, but to say they don't have any talent on the defense is an injustice to alot of talented players who actually won that ring for Manning. And Rex. Rex should have gotten a ring as well.

**Polishguy00** · 01-29-2011, 12:42 PM

I understand he was DPotY once, but now he has missed more games than he has played. That makes him more like Merrill Hoge than Ronnie Lott.

**GoBigOrGoHome** · 01-29-2011, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Pruitt

I have to take issue with the labeling of Bob Sanders as an "elite" player. At this point, he is a nonentity. I know, I know, when he's on the field, he's great, but he's as helpful to the Colts right now as Eric Dickerson is.

Being great for 4-7 games per year then ending up in IR strips him of his once 'elite' status. I'm not saying he can't get it back. But right now? Elite? Nope.