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Thread: Which One?: Tom Brady or Peyton Manning?

  1. #11
       
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    Manning.

    Nice to be asked this question as opposed to last year's Browns' quiz: Wallace or Delhomme.

  2. #12
    Gimme Brady. Go Blue.
    Screw you guys, I'm going home.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeland View Post
    I don't agree. Mark Rypien has more Super Bowl titles than Dan Marino and Dan Fouts combined. I don't think you can just rank all QBs by wins, playoff wins or Super Bowl wins and that alone will tell you who the best QB is.
    Hey Brady isn't one of these one-season wonders like Rypien, Dilfer, Hostetler, or Doug Williams. He and Peyton have almost identical career QB ratings. I agree that Super Bowl and playoff wins don't alone tell who the best QB is. But Manning and Brady are a lot closer in talent than Marino and Rypien. So when you have two guys with similar regular season stats, you have to move on to post-season success to determine who's the best right?
    Last edited by RayFinkle; 07-01-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  4. #14
       
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    Quote Originally Posted by darvon View Post
    Manning.

    I feel Manning has propped up his team more and that Manning can do more with less than Brady, including coaching.
    I agree.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by darvon View Post
    Manning.

    I feel Manning has propped up his team more and that Manning can do more with less than Brady, including coaching.
    Brady with Troy Brown et. al. playing receiver won three SB's. Manning with Harrison/Wayne/Stokely/Clark won one SB. Who did more with less (minus coaching)? Ultimately, QBs are paid to win in big situations. Brady gets the nod.
    Screw you guys, I'm going home.

  6. I personally think they are so close, and each probably has 4+ years of elite play left in the tank, that I will reserve judgment until their careers are over.

    The consensus seems to shift wildly each year. Brady wins 3 out of 4 Super Bowls so he is better, Manning gets a ring to go with all his stats in 2006 so he is better, Brady gets monster stats in 2007 to go with his 3 rings so he is better, Manning wins back to back MVPs and his 4th overall in 2009 so he is better, Brady is fist unanimous MVP in 2010 so he is better.

    Since the topic comes up somewhat regularly I compiled the most common arguments last year. I updated it to include to totality of last season.


    Brady


    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BradTo00.htm
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/...YF?year=career

    3 rings to 1

    2 Super Bowl MVPs vs 1

    77.6 regular season win % vs 67.8

    14-5 playoff record vs 9-10 (5-10 outside of 2006 when he was carried by his defense and running game)

    Brady has been more dominant in his MVP seasons.
    49 out of 50 votes in 2007, 50 out of 50 votes in 2010
    Chris Johnson or Drew Brees should have won in 2009
    Manning was not much better, if at all, than Brees or Rivers in 2008, and Chad Pennington took a 1-15 team to 11-5 division champs in one year.
    Manning tied McNair in 2003 (Brady beat them both in the playoffs)

    The Patriots home games have some of the worst weather in the NFL and Brady still has a better career passer rating. Brady: 95.2 Manning: 94.9

    Playing playoff games in Foxborough during January is a lot harder than in a dome, which more than accounts for Manning slight edge in playoff passer rating.

    When controlling for Dome vs New England weather Brady is clearly better:

    On the Road
    Brady Win% 68.06 Com% 63.74 TD% 5.76 INT% 2.82 YPG 249.1 Y/A 7.54 QBR 94.1
    Manning Win% 62.5 Com% 64.53 TD% 5.26 INT% 2.97 YPG 264.0 Y/A 7.48 QBR 92.2

    INDOORS
    Brady: 103.1 QBR, 67.2 Comp%, 258.7 YPG, 8.4 YPA, 6.7 TD%, 3.0 INT%
    Peyton: 98.7 QBR, 65.5 Comp%, 260.3 YPG, 7.8 YPA, 6.2 TD%, 2.7 INT%

    OUTDOORS
    Brady: 94.4 QBR, 63.2 Comp%, 237.6 YPG, 7.3 YPA, 5.4 TD%, 2.1 INT%
    Peyton: 91.0 QBR, 64.4 Comp%, 268.3 YPG, 7.4 YPA, 4.8 TD%, 2.8 INT%

    % of Career Pass Attempts (Indoors/Outdoors)
    Brady: 9.13% / 90.87%
    Peyton: 51.4% / 48.6%

    Brady’s 2007 was better than Manning’s 2004
    Bad weather vs dome
    More TD passes
    More team points
    More pressure and higher stakes with undefeated season on the line every week

    2.53 td/int ratio vs 2.02

    Matt Cassel’s 2008 does not diminish Brady
    Patriot’s schedule was weak that year
    Cassel is a good QB
    Brady was coming back from a devastating knee injury in 2009
    Brady played against an extremely tough schedule for a passer 2009
    Footballoutsiders’ DYAR (defense adjusted yards above replacement) for Brady and Cassel when they had the same weapons.
    Brady’s 2007: 2,788
    Cassel’s 2008: 655
    Brady’s 2009: 2,170

    Volume does not matter, wins and efficiency does

    Manning has benefited from having better players on his offence than Brady

    Number of offensive players who had a pro bowl year besides Brady on the Patriots
    Average 1.56 (.56 receivers)
    2010 3 (1 receiver)
    2009 3 (2 receivers)
    2007 4 (1 receiver)
    2006 1
    2005 0
    2004 1
    2003 0
    2002 1
    2001 1 (1 receiver)

    Number of offensive players who had a pro bowl year besides Manning on the Colts
    Average 2.23 (1.15 receivers)
    2010 2 (1 receiver)
    2009 3 (2 receivers)
    2008 1 (1 receiver)
    2007 3 (1 receiver)
    2006 4 (2 receivers)
    2005 4 (1 receiver)
    2004 3 (1 receiver)
    2003 1 (1 receiver)
    2002 1 (1 receiver)
    2001 2 (2 receivers)
    2000 2 (1 receiver)
    1999 2 (1 receiver)
    1998 1

    Just because the Colts let Manning essentially be their offensive coordinator, doesn’t mean Brady couldn’t do it too. It says more about the differences in organizational philosophy than the quarterbacks.


    Manning


    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...M/MannPe00.htm
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/...YF?year=career

    4 MVPs vs 2

    5 time First-Team all-pro vs 2

    11 pro bowls vs 6

    Manning Leads Brady in the vast majority of career stats (see pro-football-reference link)

    Manning leads Brady in the following stats:
    G
    GS
    Cmp
    Att
    Cmp%
    Yds
    TDs
    Y/A
    Y/C
    Y/G
    Sk
    Sk Yds
    NY/A
    ANY/A
    Sk%
    AV
    Y/A+
    NY/A+
    AY/A+
    ANY/A+
    Cmp%+
    Sk%+
    Fmb

    Brady leads Manning in:
    QB Rating
    Int
    Int%
    Int%+

    They are tied in:
    TD%
    AY/A
    TD%+
    Rate+

    Championships, regular season wins, and playoff wins are a team accomplishment

    Brady has played with a better defense throughout his career.

    Colts D in Manning’s career:
    Average 15.54th in scoring D, 38.5% chance to be in top 10, 15.4% chance to be in top 5
    Average 17.38th in yard D, 15.4% chance to be in top 10, 7.7% chance to be in top 5

    Patriots D in Brady’s career:
    Average 6.89th in scoring D, 77.8% chance to be in top 10, 55.6% chance to be in top 5
    Average 15th in yard D, 44.4% chance to be in top 10, 11.1% chance to be in top 5

    Manning much more often is under pressure to produce points and deal with worse field position.

    Manning has a better career passing rating in the playoffs
    If Manning had as good a defense as Brady did Manning’s playoff record would be much better

    Brady will never come close to Manning’s volume numbers
    Manning has started in 65 more games. There is huge value in having an all time great QB for 65 more games. Manning has played longer still is better than Brady in most efficiency stats.

    Manning’s career stats are dragged down by his rookie year. Brady had an advantage of spending a full year in his system before he had to start.
    Manning’s stats with his rookie year removed
    Com% 65.8 TD% 5.6 int% 2.6 y/a 7.7 QBR 97.05 td/int 2.19

    Matt Cassel’s 2008 diminishes Brady
    Brady’s career Passer passer rating 95.2
    Cassel’s 2008 passer rating 89.4

    Manning’s 2004 was better than Brady’s 2007
    Manning was pulled much sooner than Brady in blowouts and he attempted 2 passes in the last game.
    Manning was more efficient
    9.9 TD% vs 8.7
    121.1 passer rating vs 117.2

    Manning has been more consistent over his career
    Only 3 of his 13 seasons have a passer rating under 90
    4 of 9 full seasons are under 90 for Brady

    Manning is the only quarterback in the league who essentially acts as the offensive coordinator
    Last edited by nonamesleft; 07-03-2011 at 06:51 AM.

  7. #17
       
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    Brilliant summary!
    “Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.”
    ― Napoleon Bonaparte

  8. Chad Pennington should have been the 2008 MVP over Manning.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RayFinkle View Post
    I can't believe people actually choose Manning in this debate. Brady has won more and that's all that matters. Manning defenders have all types of excuses for him like he doesn't have a defense (though it was his defense that led them to SB41) or running game (though the running backs should have been the SB41 MVP....not Manning). And what about 2005, 2007, 2008, and 2010 when the Colts had home-field advantage and lost their first playoff game? Colts fans will say that Manning earned them the great regular season record and it was everyone else's fault but his that they lost the playoff games.
    Brady hasn't won a playoff game since Spygate. Not saying I buy in completely, but it's a little fishy >

    All kidding aside, I feel like it's pretty obvious that of the two, Manning is better. Wins and Losses matter only when talking about teams and player legacy, not when comparing individual players. If you're looking at ANY other position, you compare two players by their abilities. Why do QBs get judged by w/l and not ability? When I was debating about marino, I stumbled upon this fact. There were 18 games that Marino lost where he had a 100+ QB rating. Why did the Dolphins lose? Because QB isn't the only position on the field. What's my point? My point is that wins and losses are too volatile to use to determine a player's value.
    Part owner of the 13-time world champion Green Bay Packers

    1929-1930-1931-1936-1939-1944-1961-1962-1965-1966-1967-1996-2010

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RayFinkle View Post
    Hey Brady isn't one of these one-season wonders like Rypien, Dilfer, Hostetler, or Doug Williams. He and Peyton have almost identical career QB ratings. I agree that Super Bowl and playoff wins don't alone tell who the best QB is. But Manning and Brady are a lot closer in talent than Marino and Rypien. So when you have two guys with similar regular season stats, you have to move on to post-season success to determine who's the best right?
    No. You have to look at the individual players and consider all circumstances and use logic and reasoning like nonamesleft did, not superficial win/loss stats.
    Part owner of the 13-time world champion Green Bay Packers

    1929-1930-1931-1936-1939-1944-1961-1962-1965-1966-1967-1996-2010

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